Gang-Raped Victim in Saudi Arabia gets 90 Lashes, Some Rapists get 10 Months

Sadly, only some of us have figured that out.

 

Alright - so, do you accept that a culture can out-law pre-marital relationships between two people of the opposite sex?

Obviously, that's acceptable in many places of the world. Not sure if it is more civilized or makes us superior - but in places like Saudi arabia, it's outlawed.

So first of all - can you accept that is their cultural preference - or whatever. Their society defines that as unacceptable. Just as another society says the bigomy is unacceptable.

In the U.S., bigomy is a crime. But it's not over there.

So - in Saudi Arabia - many punishements are giving out by lashes. Also in places like Singapore. lashes for petty crimes and misdemeanors.

In other words - lashes may just be what they give instead of a ticket. It's not life-threatning (so far as I know), just very painful. Someone might take a few lashes as opposed to a $400 fine. I don't know, just seems like it deserves more discussion.

So the question is - what is the problem - the laws, the punishment (which then brings into question a much larger issue then getting into a car with a stranger), or both?

What should be the system? That's basically what I am asking here.

 

But giving lashes instead of a ticket is wrong.

I don't know what there is to discuss. Giving out lashes for getting into a car with a member of the opposite sex is oppressive, and wrong.

I'm not going to prescribe a system for the people of Saudi, however, if they have pieces in their system that are over abusive, oppressive, and unjust, I won't be shy about stating my opinion on the matter.

 

are you saying now that you didnt lie? you stated you were indian, than you werent, than you were again. that is called "lying". and you did this in order to justify your argument that what allen said wasnt racist. "hey, im indian and im not offended so nobody else should".

you have proudly stated that you make stuff up about yourself and that you take positions you dont agree with just to stir the pot. dont get mad when people call you on it.

 

sorry you find it annoying. it was never meant to be a joke. it is true. i do find it funny in a hypocritical way b/c he claims to be a christian conservative and he promotes anti-gay policies. our president plants gay male hookers in the white house press corp and has them visit the white house over 200 times. that is a stone cold fact, it is very serious and for some reason the country totally ignores it.

just like the country totally ignores that bush's lawyers say he can torture children.

just like the country totally ignores that bush spent $2.6 billion on fake news and propaganda.

i repeat it over and over b/c it needs to be driven home that these are the kind of people who are leading our country.

 

so when you called me a nazi and compared me to dick cheney was that b/c you had no other way to bring me down?

i dont care if people call me names b/c its just an internet message board, but i find it hilarious that you would whine about the exact thing that you do.

textbook hypocrisy.

 

so is it giving lashes for getting into a car with someone of the opposite sex wrong - or is it just that giving lashes is wrong under any circumstances?

Are you saying that it's wrong to physically punish? That's what the implication is - that any physical punishment is wrong?

Should a parent be able to spank his child for doing something wrong?

When is physical punishment ok? Ever? For what crimes or transgressions?

I'm trying to understand your policy and it's moral basis. When is a lash that correct? When is physical punishment allowable?

 

wrong, wrong, wrong - you stated over and over again that macaca is not a racist term or even if it was, george allen didnt know what it meant. it was spelled out to you that due to his family background there is no possible way that he couldnt not have known what it meant and you continued to defend him and claim that he wasnt being deragatory.

you stated that you were indian and didnt think macaca was offensive so nobody else should either. than you came out and said you werent indian. than you backtracked again and said you were.

if your race shouldnt matter than why the heck did you bring it up?

 

Why do I take such contraian views - it's not just to debate to debate. I don't mind standing alone.

If more people had the courage to question and not be intimidated by public view - we wouldn't have gone to war with Iraq.

Instead, we had people who wouldn't dare question Bush's claim that Iraq was in league with Terrorists. They had "evidence" and that anger and fear was at it's peak.

We all now see what that has reaped.

If you can not question, you're a tool to be manipulated by others.

 

No the implication isn't that all physical punishment is wrong. The implication is that it is cruel and unusual punishment to hand out nearly 100 lashes for merely getting into a car with someone of the opposite sex.

 

Yes, you are taking a brave lone stand in favor of lashing a girl and a man 90 times for riding in a car together.

Way to fight the good fight.

 

Ok - so when are lashes appropriate - when are they not? What is the proper punishment for breaking the laws?

I'm curious as to why you keep avoiding that. Phyiscal punishment isn't wrong? But the Saudis are wrong and inferior?

I see, so it's ok if people give lashes so long as it fits YOUR definition of what laws sould be right? And let's keep in mind, no one has been given a single lashing for this breech in law.

 

Do not put words in my mouth. You statement here is as wild me stating you are advocating the elimination of all punishments.

I've already proved my point. That the lashes were not about the rape - and that there was a breech in the law.

I never said she deserved 90 lashes, only that she knew the crime and potential punishment. The punishment may be excessive from our point of view, but the time to protest that should have been before the law was broken, not after the fact. Frankly, the woman may be lying about being blackmailed and maybe the judge would have let her go if she didn't concoct stories to try to protect herself and throw he male companion under the bus.

 

Just because it is the law does not make it right.

Just ask Dr. ML King about that.

DD

 

for the umpteenth time, nobody is claiming that the lashes were about the rape. but you keep arguing that - keep clinging to that last thread, strawman.

seems that most everyone is simply arguing that 90 lashes for getting into a car w/ a man is wrong.

 

or the jews in germany circa 1933.

 

MLK wouldn't cry about 90 lashes though:

The woman didn't break the law because she thought it was unjust. She didn't do it to for any noble reason to fight for her civil rights. She broke a law that applied to all of the people. That every Saudi was under. There was no discrimination. She certainly didn't willing accept the consequences of her transgression. This woman wasn't kicked off a bus. And it's not even clear that the Saudi people view this law as unjust. SHouldn't we learn more about what they are saying before you judge this law to be unjust?

She broke a law designed to maintain the culture of her land. You may not like that culture - or find it overly strict, but that was a culture applied to all. Now she knowingly and wilfully broke that law....and now is trying to weasel out of the consequences.

If the law is really unjust - she should say so. She should do what MLK did, not come out and say she was blackmailed MONTHS afterwards.

Everyone thinks she is not guilty of any wrong doing and not capable of telling a lie - because we all want to condemn those dastardly Saudis and say "oh look how bad they are".

This thread started with Saudis giving lashes because a woman got raped. At least we've moved closer to the truth. It took 15 pages, and was like pulling teeth, and those who claimed it was about rape are now going to say that was never the issue. Fortunately, I have better things to do then pour over their posts and show their quotes - which they wouldn't repond to anyway.

I mean, look at the title of this thread!!! It's one big lie. 10 months? Blackmail? Lashes for rape????

 

Easy there NewYorker, I think everyone gets the point that the facts were a little off, it was foxnews that was the original source after all... you can’t expect apologies for the comment’s made in the first few pages in this thread due to the facts that were presented ……but what everyone is now saying is that the lashes are still an extreme punishment for sitting in a car with a man alone, which you’ve agreed upon. You’re getting riled up for no reason.

 

Point: I don't care what the law in the U.S. is like. It is not the prime example for what a judicial system should be like. That may be your opinion, but thats about it.

Plus, Mike Tyson is not the average, he is an example that supports your theory. Try harder.

 

Yeah but this is your opinion which was formed without the benefit of living in Saudi culture and understanding it.

Money means a lot less to Middle Easterners than it does to Americans (my personal opinion). So paying cash is not a good replacement for lashes.

It's a cruel punishment, I'll give you that. But it's as cruel as the girl is stupid for entering the car.