Hey don't shoot me for this but haven't watched one episode and want to know why it's such a hot topic everywhere? Anyone?
Forget GRRM for a minute, I'm not some book fanatic. It's illogical that people afraid of the Dragons because they so easily decimated their armies centuries ago would voluntarily switch sides to the opposite side of the Dragons. And if they were going to decide they would rather fight against the Dragons instead of with them because they are so afraid of them (lol?) it's still illogical that they would trust Cersei to put them all in a room together on her turf after what the Lannisters have done the last two times they got lords together that were opposed to them. If you are Randall Tarly and you go meet with them, what in the world happens if he tells Jamie he's going to fight against the crown? Golly gee, I know they ordered the Red Wedding and blew up the Citadel to kill all of their enemies include by liege lord not too long ago, but I figure I can walk right into her castle, surrounded by her knights and tell her I will fight to kill her and they'll just say "well agree to disagree!" and let me walk out? Edit: To your specific point about the North and the Wildlings, they teamed up to survive basically. If the Dead weren't killing them and instead were willing to join forces with the Wildlings to conquer the North, they'd be illogical to switch sides because they were scared of what they do to their enemies as well. The Wildlings weren't really excited to go south and fight alongside the people of Westeros, they just knew they HAD to get South of the wall because the White Walkers were killing them. Anyway, I'm not saying it's illogical for people to betray their liege lord, just that the way it was done was illogical and it was done that way intentionally to make it faster and nice and neat. The show needs Cersei to be a bad guy that we care about and that wasn't going to last if they didn't do this stuff. Coming into the season there was no reason to think she could survive much longer and even Jamie knew it in show. Said it to her. No would want to be their allies because they looked like the loser. She had made enemies of the North, Dorne and the Reach...the Riverlands were in chaos because Frey was wiped out...essentially it was her against the whole world +Dragons and Dothraki and all of that lol. So we need to fix that quick.
It's entertaining enough still, and as viewers we've invested plenty to see it to the end. But the quality isn't as high as it used to be, and it clearly shows. There's no problem objectively discussing that. It's okay to not be a fanboy.
I think part of the appeal of GoT was it's limited use of magic and it's constant line of questioning as to whether it was real and to what degree. Obviously they're trying to wrap the show up inside of two seasons and they have no source material remaining so they're just trying to move things along. I accept that. The show is still fun. That said, I can't help myself but be bothered like justxyank over some issues. I agree about the Euron stuff and having enough people to man ships, and simply having enough ships to compete against Yara's army. I also agree over the Cersei stuff. Part of what made the Lannister's rich was their gold deposits on their ancestral home I thought. Tywin mentioned that to either Cersei or Tyrion. Found the scene. That was 3 seasons ago meaning who knows how many years have passed in the show. Potentially a decade or more. They were covered because they had the Tyrell's up until Cersei blew almost all of them up. But now they're absent gold and grain. I expect people in the cities to be starving and rioting. I expect soldier's unwilling to die for their psycho queen especially absent pay and food. I expect a weakened and malnourished army. I expect a complete cluster**** of situations Cersei did not anticipate on account of her short sighted decision making like done in the books and attempted in the show up until they realize they need an additional main antagonist for another season until the White Walkers are the real threat. At this point, it's just a formality on Dany and Jon getting from Point A of dealing with Cersei and existing human threats to point B, the finale against the White Walkers. Yara's own soldiers are the majority of the Iron Borne fleet. Last scene was Euron's crew and what remaining Irone Borne were left that plead allegiance to him attacking their own. Where's the scene of Euron recruiting more soldiers like Stannis and Davos convincing the Iron Bank to fund them? I was hoping for more conflict from Iron Borne having to massacre one another, people they likely personally knew. Instead it was a slaughter to beef up the reputation of Euron to the viewer. That's fine because it was really entertaining. It's just it lacked the ship fighting done when Stannis' army attacked King's Landing. It lacked the large chain and the bait to get the majority of the ships close enough to the exploding lone ship that Bronn fired an arrow at. That was a memorable battle, not just because of the wild fire explosion, but the whole set up leading up to it. Last episode lacked that type of storytelling is all. Which again is fine because I can accept they're moving the story along and fast and it did help boost the reputation of Euron. It was a really good episode, but I think it's definitely open to criticism. I'm really liking the theory that the story has already happened and is being narrated by Samwell at the Citadel. I agree with the theory that the show will end with an old Sam as a Maester finishing up writing his historical book contribution with the Song of Ice and Fire. EDIT: I don't quite understand the impatience people have with Dany sacking King's Landing humanely. She's seen a vision already of the Iron Throne covered in ashes. She wants to avoid that. At least from the vision, it seems inevitable.
I want to be very clear that I'm not trashing the show. I love the show and really enjoyed the episode. I'm discussing minor issues among other watchers. If someone for example hated GOT and I was speaking with them I'd be pointing out how amazing the show is. My discussion here starts from the baseline of us all agreeing it's a great show and a great story that we are all invested in. Specifically on the Lannisters: Tywin mentioned they were in debt with no new gold in a long time. Jamie mentioned that the Reach (Tyrell) had all of the grain and food for soldiers and horses. Cersei was in a REALLY bad spot. Nobody looking at the scenario would think she was a good side to take at that point, something Jamie even acknowledged. Euron makes total sense, he has nowhere else to turn because his niece and nephew already got the Dragon Queen. But for the Reach to abandon their liege lady and side with the queen who is the enemy of the whole world? I feel like it's not hard for us all to agree that's just the show wanting to move it along. In 20 minutes last night Danny went from having the Reach, the Greyjoy fleet and Dorne all on her side to basically having none of them. How? The great Greyjoy fleet got snuck up on by an ever bigger fleet and wiped out, the Reach is just choosing to abandon House Tyrell (though not official yet) and Dorne? Dorne's leader is prisoner and I wonder if we'll ever hear from their actual soldiers again. Clearly just a reset of the board and it was quick and dirty on the details to get it out of the way.
the ending was always written clear as day on the horizon as soon as we had white walkers and dragons...the books are called "a song of ice and fire" for a reason. The dragons will be used against the night kind's army, thats exactly what they said on the episode yesterday. The fluff in between is just r****ded though. Probably better than GRRM who would have wasted time anyways though
i think you're claiming logic for yourself here. White Walkers scaring ppl into allegiances is same as Dragons scaring ppl, together with the Dothraki horde and the famous Unsullied. It's survival. It's a simple fear of the unknown changes that Dany's rule means. It's just the West sticking together against the scary invaders from the East. And last episode certainly showed they believe the power of the Dragons, because they directly asked Cersei what's she's going to do about it, as their last question before taking her side. And quit talking about how fast it took, as something illogical. Jon convinced the other Wildling Kings in five minutes at Hardhomme only because they finally saw the Magic with their own eyes. The Kings of the south know fully well what full grown dragons are capable of. It happened fast, simply because now they believe the rumors. It's all logical to me in a Magical world. You're just saying it's illogical for us to think that. OK
Let's just agree not to debate it ok? A man wants to kill you and your family and me and my family. We've both seen him kill our friends. We team up to fight him. You kill some of my friends. My other friends then bring in new friends to kill you. I decide to join with you to kill my friends and their friends. You see those two scenarios as the same and I don't. That's irreconcilable differences so let's just move on.
Why do you say that? Would think it would be a good thing? She needs all the help she can get because we all know Littlefinger is a mischievous little punk and is working to undermine everything.
If the first 2 episodes of season 7 indicate how these last 2 seasons will go, it will feel like D&D tidying up loose ends and cramming as much relevant scenes to give the story a satisfactory end. It reminds me of Return of the Jedi, retreading past actions so the "learn from past mistakes" message is applied. Still will watch because the dialogue and production is still generally great, but the story arc is on the downward slope. My question is why couldn't Dany and Varys have that conversation on that long ship ride, instead of standing in the middle of the ship and staring into the horizon?
