How's "equality" doing in Saudi Arabia and Kwait, two biggest allies of US in the region? What about freedom? Did US knowingly support Saddam despite his perceived evil deeds, to achieve something more "noble"? Or was US innocently unaware Saddam was a bad guy? What's the moral of US on dealing with Saddam? I don't even need to bring the OIL word here. But has not US always been practising situational morality? Shall I spell out h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y?
How "strong" and "continued" do you think our "involvement" should be? Are we to assign 100,000 troops to Iraq for the next decade? Two? Eventually, Americans will want to see their sons and daughters return, something that won't happen while we have a volunteer military and declining enlistments. Eventually, we will leave and it is highly likely that without some massive and fundamental changes over there, a civil war will break out once we do so.
I think that America can outlast the insurgency and I dont think it will take any more than 2-3 years to do so. To answer questions about supporting Saddam in the 70s: America was mortified that Soviets could come to power in the Middle East and extend their iron curtain. They failed in Afghanistan, with Bin Laden receiving help from America and with America's support of Saddam the USSR didn't even try. Obviously, America supporting those two was a terrible terrible idea, but I do not think it had anything to do with oil.
I had a long reply written. It was too depressing and personal for me to comfortably post. Optimism is a good thing. But don't let it blind you to reality.
Only trouble with that is....the "Western Nations" aren't helping us out in Iraq like they did in Afghanistan, except for Great Britain. The US and Great Britain do not have enough "players" between them to make a free middle east a reality. The impetus has to come from the people who live there. Outside of Lebanon, have we even seen that impetus?
If you still have it and dont mind one person reading, I wouldn't mind reading it if you emailed it to me. Regardless, I have optimism in people, especially Americans. Is that a bad thing, maybe. But I think that optimism and only optimism will help us succeed in Iraq. If we quit now, what do we gain? btw, my email addy is: fatman510@gmail.com
No, but that is because previously they had not been given the oppurtunity to do so. A dictatorship led by a cruel dictator does not exactly breed opposition and freedom of thought. I think when a truly democratic government is truly put into place (regardless of whether the insurgency continues to oppose it or not) we will see more of a movement of people in Iraq and the middle east holding corrupt leaders accountable.
Are you saying that Arab fractions are incapapble of finding a democratic solution without the killing of a lot of people? You sure have a lot of faith in the people of Iraq.
Wrong. We dont gain anything. We might not lose some American lives, but again, those Americans signed up for the military and commited their lives to the American military. I can say now that I would rather have a more peaceful world (for all) than the lives of some Americans. And I profusely thank the honorable American soldiers who allow me to say that.
Not that the ones who oppose democracy and freedom and in turn kill their own citizens for their religious beliefs actually deserve to live.
You seem to be drinking from the same water supply as Dick Cheney. Optimism is one thing, but you are taking at their word the same people who claimed that we would be greeted with flowers, that Iraq could pay for its own reconstruction, and that Iraq was trying to obtain nuclear materials. One thing that history tells us is that people will fight without end against any power that occupies them. As long as we are seen as the imperialist occupiers, as we are now and will continue to be as long as we have troops in Iraq, there will be Iraqis who will attack us and any who support us. But it is nice to see that you are OK with sitting in your comfortable chair for 2-3 more years while another 2000-3000 soldiers give their lives for Bush's mistake.
One thing that history also tells us is that the "imperialists" also succeed. (see: Britain, France, Belgium, Italy and Holland's campaigns in Africa in the 1800s). I am OK sitting in my comfortable chair while 2000-3000 more soldiers honorably give their lives for a better and more peaceful world.
Please post. I am sure most forumites will appreciate and repect your personal struggle on this very important issue. I am having a hard time to get over it, as you can observe.
i've never been that good at math but i understand that the arabs invented algebra. i'm also pretty impressed with their design skills.
How are these imperialized African countries doing now? Sadly, this is exactly what's wrong with this country.
Horribly, after all the imperialist countries ran like hell without bothering to ensure that a beneficial (to the African countries) government was set up.
