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Frustration of an Indepent(s)

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Oct 23, 2010.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    As many of you know I live in Minnesota and I am a supporter of the MN Independence Party. Our candidate for governor, Tom Horner, http://www.horner2010.com/ has this past week been endorsed by practically every paper in the state, several former governors and has been gaining some traction in some polls but today the President came to Minneapolis to have a campaign rally for the Dem. Mark Dayton and Bill Clinton is supposed to come out to. On top of that the Repub. Tom Emmer has had Newt Gingrich come to town and both the D and the R are pouring tons of money into this race along with outside groups. Horner isn't going to be able to run TV ads until this week but in for the past few weeks outside interest groups have been running attack ads, targeting both Dayton and Horner from the Right, and Emmer and Horner from the Left so we are being hit from both sides of the ideological spectrum.

    Pardon me for falling into campaign mode but I find this particularly frustrating as the Tom Emmer the Repub. is essentially a Right Wing ideologue who back in July said that we should reconsider minimum wage because waiter earn up $100,000 a year while Mark Dayton is simply awful. A scion of the wealthy Dayton family (Target Corp) who's hobby is running for office and by his own assessment one of the worse US Senators who stepped down after one term since even he felt he was hurting the Dems. Horner is a former Repub. consultant who has worked with Dems and is proposing a balanced approach that has been widely praised by almost every former MN Governor and even by many in both the D and the R camps.

    What bothers me though is just because Dayton has "D" in front of the name you have Obama coming in town to support him. I mean if Dayton wins as a governor he can't help Obama in Congress and given Dayton's track record may prove an embarrassment to Democrats in MN and beyond. This just seems like outside interests are pouring money and endorsments into this race without knowing much about the candidates but just because of the parties they belong too.

    Sorry for the long rant but just needed to vent.
     
  2. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    This has been the case for a long long time and won't really change until money gets pushed out of politics.
     
  3. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Any state house and senate seats in play? Any Congressional seats in play? Obama's visit may not have had that much to do with the governor's race, if the answer to those questions is yes. One overlooked result of the possible looming catastrophe in the midterm elections coming up quickly is redistricting. This is the worst possible time to be losing control, or even significant influence in state governor races and right on down the state ballots in every state. I know you aren't living in Texas now, but as you might remember, we had an incredibly partisan, unprecedented redistricting fight that saw the Governor and Republican Texas Lege running roughshod over many decades of Texas legislative comity and tradition, with the help of Tom DeLay, to boot out every white Democratic congressman in Texas, excepting Edwards, despite those members being conservative Democrats, in the main, who were being reelected with good majorities in Republican majority districts. Why? Because those folks liked their congressman. Didn't matter a good ******* to Perry, DeLay, and their cronies.

    So yeah, elections have consequences, and with all due respect, I'm not going to lose any sleep over Obama's trip. :)
     
    #3 Deckard, Oct 23, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2010
  4. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    "D" presidents are going to support "D" candidates for governor, especially if they have a chance to win. That's just the way it is. "D" and "R" out-of-state money will flow to the "D" and "R" candidates. Simple as that. The two-party system in this country ain't going away. IMO, supporting independent party movements is nearly always a waste of time.

    I say that as someone who is every bit as independent as one can be. I don't identify with either party. I'm not a "conservative", "liberal" or "libertarian" independent that supports one party or the other most of the time. The idea of a candidate or movement that doesn't lock into the standard, current power groupings is very appealing to me.

    But reality is reality and money will NEVER get pushed out of politics in this country. The moneyed pressure groups will always exercise a disproportionate influence on elective office. It's the American way. Sad but true.
     
  5. Malcolm

    Malcolm Member

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    It's also the problem of the 2 party system. Also the fact that people have the option of voting straight ticket which they don't even realize what canadate stance on issues really are. It becomes more like homework to vote instead of knowing what each canadate, bond and propasition is about. People wonder why Americans don't vote enough.
     
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Yes there are state House and Senate seats in play but from my understanding the Democrat majorities will likely still hold. In regard to redistricting the last two redistrictings in MN have been decided by the courts and it wouldn't surprise me if that happens again this time. There are two somewhat contested US House races (the Bachmann-R seat, and Walz-D seat) That said this was a rally specifically to support the gov candidate. I wasn't at the rally so I have no idea how much was made to support Clark running against Bachmann and Walz probably didn't attend as his district is one where Obama lost to McCain.
    As you note MN isn't TX and neither D or R has been able to dominate redistricting recently, in the last round the IP even had a say with Ventura as governor. Also as noted Dayton is awful while Horner isn't a Dem. he isn't reflexively opposed to Obama and in regard to dealing with the Federal government will more likely be an ally or at least a rational opponent.

    Obama's visit just seems like a reflexive reaction the same as outside groups pumping money and endorsements without knowing much about the candidates other than the party affiliation to the detriment of MN.
     
  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Keep in mind I live in a state that not that long ago had an Independent governor.

    At that time we also had a terrible Democrat, which seems to be a trend for the last 20 years for governor, and while not an awful Repub. one who at the time wasn't very popular (Norm Coleman). The national parties stayed largely out of the race then.
     
  8. rimrocker

    rimrocker Contributing Member

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    Off-year presidential visits are often scheduled with the next on-year election in mind.
     
  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    That is probably so has from what I saw of a lot of the President's speech wasn't so much praising Dayton but defending the Admin's record and warning about the peril of the Repubs taking over. In other words his basic stump speech. That doesn't make me feel much better as Horner pretty much supported the Health Care Bill and the stimulus.

    Anyway I understand the political realities that D's will support D's and R's will support R's without that much thought and I am mostly just venting. Still it seems like this election there has been way more outside endorsements and money poured into this governor's race than any before.
     
  10. BetterThanI

    BetterThanI Contributing Member

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    Well, you said it yourself: the state has a history of supporting/electing independents. Any opportunity that either D's or R's have to establish a foothold in the state will be viewed as crucial.

    Like it or not, the current state of U.S. politics is very much us vs. them. There's really no viable third option.
     
  11. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Just for reference here is an article regarding the current political situation in MN and WI. As noted in the article the Democrats aren't really in that much trouble in MN so Obama probably would've been better off making another trip to Madison or Milwaukee to try to support Feingold than rallying for Dayton.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39801872/ns/politics-decision_2010

    GOP storm bears down on Wis., may pass by Minn.
    Electoral winds are blowing in opposite directions in Upper Midwest states

    For the last half-century, retiree Georgi Anderson consistently voted for Democrats in Wisconsin. It was a party, she says, that "stood for something better. They were on the side of the working man."

    Not anymore. Anderson plans to vote Republican down the line Nov. 2, snubbing a Democratic Party she says has changed for the worse. If polls are right, Anderson is part of a cresting wave that could turn Wisconsin bright red just two years after a Democratic landslide.

    It's a different story next door in Minnesota, where Republicans are clawing to make gains in Congress in what is supposed to be a Republican year. And they're still struggling to close ranks around their party's nominee for governor.

    "We left the best horses in the barn," says a dispirited Dan Dorman, a southern Minnesota tire dealer and former GOP lawmaker considering staying home on Election Day. "I don't know what the heck I'm going to do."
    For the last half-century, retiree Georgi Anderson consistently voted for Democrats in Wisconsin. It was a party, she says, that "stood for something better. They were on the side of the working man."

    Not anymore. Anderson plans to vote Republican down the line Nov. 2, snubbing a Democratic Party she says has changed for the worse. If polls are right, Anderson is part of a cresting wave that could turn Wisconsin bright red just two years after a Democratic landslide.

    It's a different story next door in Minnesota, where Republicans are clawing to make gains in Congress in what is supposed to be a Republican year. And they're still struggling to close ranks around their party's nominee for governor.

    "We left the best horses in the barn," says a dispirited Dan Dorman, a southern Minnesota tire dealer and former GOP lawmaker considering staying home on Election Day. "I don't know what the heck I'm going to do."
    For the last half-century, retiree Georgi Anderson consistently voted for Democrats in Wisconsin. It was a party, she says, that "stood for something better. They were on the side of the working man."

    Not anymore. Anderson plans to vote Republican down the line Nov. 2, snubbing a Democratic Party she says has changed for the worse. If polls are right, Anderson is part of a cresting wave that could turn Wisconsin bright red just two years after a Democratic landslide.

    It's a different story next door in Minnesota, where Republicans are clawing to make gains in Congress in what is supposed to be a Republican year. And they're still struggling to close ranks around their party's nominee for governor.

    "We left the best horses in the barn," says a dispirited Dan Dorman, a southern Minnesota tire dealer and former GOP lawmaker considering staying home on Election Day. "I don't know what the heck I'm going to do."
    Who was at the wheel?
    The political split among the two states may come down to who was at the wheel when the economy turned south. Unemployment soared to 9.6 percent in Wisconsin last year at a time when Democrats ran everything; it flirted with 9 percent in Minnesota where Pawlenty was the lead face in a divided government.

    But when the desire for change took hold in Wisconsin, it did so with a vengeance. Thousands of the disenchanted turned out for tea party rallies across the state supporting stridently conservative candidates. Many of those Republican candidates now lead heading into the election.
    Advertisement | ad info

    The Tea Party brewed in Minnesota, too, but hasn't really become a political force.

    State Rep. Tom Emmer, the Republican nominee for Minnesota governor, has Tea Party appeal but hasn't robed himself with the movement. Polls show Emmer trails in a bid to retain the Minnesota governor's seat for the GOP, the party's only existing lever of state power. And there's a distinct possibility Republicans could be shut out of statewide office altogether for the first time in 32 years.

    Minnesota Republicans find themselves fractured over what to do about the state's budget — whether to continue to aggressively cut costs at the expense of social programs and other priorities, or to return to the moderate approach once favored by the party. Some prominent moderates are so embittered that they are refusing to back the party nominee in November.

    Emmer, a tough-talking conservative, has promised to continue Pawlenty's signature no-new-tax approach, vowing to fix a nearly $6 billion deficit solely by curbing spending. Dayton, meanwhile, says he'd raise taxes on the wealthy.

    The prominent Republicans choosing to support a third-party candidate, Tom Horner, a former GOP strategist, and spurn Emmer include former Govs. Arne Carlson and Al Quie, former Sen. David Durenberger and former state party Chairman Bill Morris. When a group of middle-of-the-road GOP legislators recently followed suit, state party Chairman Tony Sutton caused a stir by denouncing them as "quislings," a word linked to a Norwegian Nazi collaborator.
    Minnesota Republicans find themselves fractured over what to do about the state's budget — whether to continue to aggressively cut costs at the expense of social programs and other priorities, or to return to the moderate approach once favored by the party. Some prominent moderates are so embittered that they are refusing to back the party nominee in November.

    Emmer, a tough-talking conservative, has promised to continue Pawlenty's signature no-new-tax approach, vowing to fix a nearly $6 billion deficit solely by curbing spending. Dayton, meanwhile, says he'd raise taxes on the wealthy.

    The prominent Republicans choosing to support a third-party candidate, Tom Horner, a former GOP strategist, and spurn Emmer include former Govs. Arne Carlson and Al Quie, former Sen. David Durenberger and former state party Chairman Bill Morris. When a group of middle-of-the-road GOP legislators recently followed suit, state party Chairman Tony Sutton caused a stir by denouncing them as "quislings," a word linked to a Norwegian Nazi collaborator.
    But the GOP is especially salivating over the prospect of knocking off liberal icon Feingold, who has played catchup lately. Businessman Ron Johnson, a political upstart who has spent millions of his own money attacking Feingold on federal spending and labeled him as a "career politician," has connected with independent voters who went to Feingold in the past.

    That includes Lee Mikell, a 36-year-old prison supervisor from Racine who says he feels let down by Feingold and Democrats. "I don't like being in a guild with Republicans, but I'm going to give him the opportunity," Mikell said. "Who else do we have?"
     
  12. weslinder

    weslinder Contributing Member

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    Deckard, After all I've done for you, you completely forget about me.

    Sincerely,

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    yeah, it's not like they've had their own opportunity in the past decade and completely ****ed our country up. oh wait...
     
  14. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Hey, he's from Austin! While they made an effort to redistrict Doggett out of business, by the time they got around to him, they just couldn't come up with a district "Republican" enough to do him in. Not even close. By the way, my significant other is knows his wife pretty well. They are involved in several of the same women's professional organizations, women's right organizations, and the like. Ms. Doggett a very fine lady. Besides, the very successful effort by DeLay, Perry and backers targeted conservative Democrats who had kept their seats in conservative districts because the folks who lived there liked them. Doggett, on the other hand, represented that blue speck in the middle of Central Texas. Not really their target, although they did try. :)
     

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