Thats HOW you beat the fronting defense. If they front Yao, you just flat out aren't going to get the ball into him. But if Brooks can get past his guy, suddenly that lane is wide open. You beat the fronting defense with movement. And those last two plays the ball was in Yao's hand. Even if Scola hadn't been in great position to score, Yao had an open shot at the FT line. You don't beat the fronting defense by giving the ball to Yao in the post. They are taking that away, but that means something is open. Sometimes its Scola open from the wing/FT line. Sometimes its Wafer/Brooks/Lowry driving to the basket. Sometimes its an open mid range jumper. If teams could front Yao without giving up something then teams would do that all the time. But they only do that when its a situation where 90% of the time we want to give the ball to Yao and go one on one.
I think that right now, you can be thankful that it worked today. I'm not going to expect it to work consistently, especially in a playoff series. I think this season has shown us that our offense is better when we have motion and werun the offense through Yao at least half the time. We seem to run into problems when we play one on one basketball and everybody just stands around. It gets stagnant. It worked today but it hasn't in the past and I'd be hesitant to bank on it in the future.
It is soooo sad that our franchise player can be taken out of a game so easily. He really needs to step it up and not let his defender make him ineffective. (Good thing about Yao was that he didn't give up and found another way to get us a win...credit needs to go to Rick Adelman too)
Well, yeah. Movement is what beats fronting defenses. When the offense is set, its probably most effective in terms of getting the player you want to get the ball (getting Yao the ball in the post). But when the offense is set, its easier to double/rotate on Yao. When the offense is moving, its really hard to get a specific guy the ball in position to score, its just whoever is open. But at the same time, that guy that is fronting Yao suddenly is out of position when there is all this movement. If this had nothing to do with the fact that we took advantage of them fronting Yao, that means we just basically broke down one of the best defenses in the league in the 4th, in a playoff style atmosphere, on the road, WITHOUT getting the ball to Yao in the post, and without Artest going off (in the 4th).
We beat it? If anything, the Spurs completely shut down Yao with fronting defence. The Rocs tried to run a play in order to get yao the ball but it resulted in 2 TOs, both involving passing the ball to Hayes and him lobbing it hoping Yao would catch it. Like somebody said earlier, we 'beat' it by getting away from it.
There are two facts I've said before and repeated in some cases that destroy the "we got lucky" theory some people seem to be putting forward: 1. We got easy baskets in the 4th against one of the best defenses in the league, without Yao getting significant looks in the post, or Artest getting good looks on the wing. And Yao happened to be getting fronted while this was going on. This can't be just a coincidence. 2. If teams can front Yao without giving something else up (like easy looks around the basket because the defending C is on the wing perhaps?), then why didn't they front him all game?
Yao wasn't posting up when we were scoring, therefore he couldn't have been fronted when it was going on. After the first few attempts to get Yao the ball when he was fronted, they completely abandoned it. They never tried to post up Yao for the rest of the game and consequently he wasn't fronted the rest of the game. We scored largely because of Lowry's and Brooks' speed and ability to get to the rim. Yao had only taken 5 shots through the first 3 quarters of the game. If Yao isn't beating you, there's no reason to front him. But Yao hit his first 2 jumpers in the 4th and San Antonio felt he was ready to go off and they had to break out their "secret weapon" and neutralize him. And it worked. Yao really only had the ball in his hands 3 times after that, once on the dunk putback and twice on the high pick 'n roll. Over the coures of the season, the Rockets have shown an inability to score when Yao gets fronted. But we were able to do it today. I don't think you can look at this game and automatically say we'll always be able to score when Yao gets fronted because we had success against the Spurs. We couldn't do it agains the Bulls but we could against the Spurs. The game is funny that way. Bottom line is we need an inside-outside game to be successful in the playoffs. If they can take away our best post option, then they just negated 27% of our offensive strategy. The other thing is that while we have struggled when Yao gets fronted, opponents want to have that trick available in their bag if they need it. If they did it all the time, we might actually figure out how to solve it and then they'd lose it as an option.
Semantics argument, its basically saying Rockets won and were good enough in SPITE of Yao getting fronted. Can't automatically assume the fronting still somehow contributed in opening things up for others. For now at least. Or that the fronting itself was actually defeated. "Defeated" is a strong word implying the fronting was crushed, that the other team fronted and Rockets shoved it back in their face. That didnt happen, was more "take what the defense gives you". But its a credit to this team for even doing that. A good fronting defense usually resulted in losses. A win against the Spurs at their place says a lot that this team can make adjustments. The football analogy, if the other team shuts down Andre Johnson the Texans might eak out a win cuz the other team paid TOO much attention to him and let others run wild. (Definitely true in defensive line play, Mario Williams getting double blocked is a good play in itself cuz that opens things up for others). But that can just be a 1 time occurence. Over the stretch of a season you need to actually beat those things. Like the Cardinals in the Super Bowl, Larry Fitzgerald was shut down and they still kept it close. But things were totally different when Fitzgerald BEAT the defensive scheme. Same need to happen with the Rockets and Yao.
That lob by Hayes typifies the problem with throwing Yao the lob. It was a perfect pass by Hayes, and anyone can throw it actually, but Yao could not catch it. He was not mobile enough. When he plant his feet, he simply can not move. We've seen it many times in different situations, a rebound only inches away from Yao's grab, only if he would take a step, he would be able to secure it but Yao can only swipe at it. His feet are planted in cement. It's just the way he is, when he stands, his heels are completely planted on the ground, that is no way to move. When you play a sports, any sports , you are taught to stand on the balls of your feet, to be on your toes, at least right before you need to move. If you watch Yao, he never does that. He probably can't, having to carry 300+ on him.
I don't know if these are "facts" or whether they prove anything. 1) If we go away from Yao when he is fronted, and we score, that is because we do other things well, not because we beat the fronting defense. If we do other things well all the time, why do we need Yao? The fact is we don't. That is why some said we are lucky. Lucky in the sense that it worked for us this time. The next time we try, it might not work. 2) Some teams did front Yao more, it's turned out to not work as well. Fronting takes a lot from the defender, he is usually worn out by the 4th. Fronting can also results in a lot of fouls, when they keep pushing on Yao the whole game, the refs are basically forced into calling fouls, hence the defender gets in foul trouble early. If they save it for the 4th, the refs usually "let the players play", so to speak, they get away with more.
IMHO, the fronting defense will never be truly solved until Yao develops a consistent face-up/mid-range game. You watch the Spurs and you can't help but notice the big difference between Duncan and Yao --the Spurs don't have to force-feed the ball to Duncan in the low post. He is a threat from high and he's a threat from low. He can just run PnR with Parker, let Parker do the dirty work in the paint, and he is capable of punishing you with his jumper, rolling to the basket, or using a variety of face up moves. Now Yao is obviously not as athletic as Duncan is, but the simple ability to consistently drain a 15-20 foot jumper would work wonders for him. You want to front Yao? Fine. We'll just pick & roll or pick & pop, and if you worry too much about trying to beat Brooks/Lowry/Artest to the rim, Yao is wide open. Plus, Yao is a good enough passer that, with him as a legitimate scoring threat from the high post position, plays like what we saw against the Spurs could actually become a normal option ... finding cutters to the basket for easy layups as he forces defenders to commit.
This has zero to do with fronting. If teams want to stop Yao, fronting is all they have to do. End of story.
Yao still has to do a much better job on sealing the fronter when the ball rotates to the top of the key so he's open for the pass in front of the basket. I'm surprised at how easy it is for the fronter to move around Yao when we try this. He's still being shut down w/ ease.
I took a look again and basically, when Thomas fronted Yao in the fourth, he didn't touch the ball once. Here's what I saw in the plays when Thomas fronted Yao. 10:24 Hayes gets the pass at the top of the key, and puts up a floater over Yao and Thomas that hits the front of the rim. (It might have been a lob pass but it looked more like a typical Hayes shot.) Yao's in position to get the rebound, but Kurt Thomas holds his arm and is called for a foul. 10:15 Hayes gets a similar pass but this time passes to Lowry on the opposite corner from Yao. Lowry immediately drives in for a layup. 9:32 Lowry and Barry backcourt ignore Yao in the post and try to create on their own. Lowry puts up a floater and misses. Rockets get the rebound and Barry drives but gets stuck beneath the basket, and ball goes out of bounds. Turnover. 8:50 Yao shifts over to the right with Thomas, leaving Barry to drive and dish. His pass to Hayes is stolen. 8:32 Yao posts on left side, tries to repost on the right, then left, then shifts back to the right again. Thomas keeps fronting him and pestering him. Meanwhile, after a pick by Battier, Lowry finds himself guarded by Finley, and blows by him for another layup. 7:57 After looking to pass into Yao, Lowry passes to Battier at the top of the key. Battier throws a lob pass to Yao that's out of his reach. The play seemed designed and if the pass was a little closer to Yao it would've been an easy bucket. Similar to the earlier play with Hayes, but Battier out further, near the three point line. 7:10 Ball swings over to Wafer who tries for a drive similar to what Lowry had been doing. But he's unable to shake his defender and misses. Artest checks back in and the Rockets run several plays with Yao not posting up. Not too successful. 3:47 Yao tries to post on the right side, but is again fronted. Ball swings over to the other side of the court to Lowry who goes around Scola but misses a floater in the paint. Pretty good defense by the Spurs. From then on, it's Battier's big three and the series of high PnR's. Basically, it seemed like they weren't looking to get the ball to Yao when he was fronted. They went to Plan B really quickly, which was either to try for a lob pass or get the guards to create on the opposite side of Yao. The Rockets seemed to have a pretty clear idea of what they wanted to do when they saw the fronting defense. They just didn't execute it too well.
I agree the best way to get yao the ball in the fourth qtr is either a brooks/lowry/artest PnR with yao. that way yao can get the ball on the roll or hit the mid range jumper. But unlike ilgauskas of the cavs, yao is not a good mid-range shooter least he is not money like landry.But i hope we can all agree that POSTING UP YAO is NOT a good play in fourth qtr. and to the question asked NO fronting was not defeated and i don't think we ever will.
This may be soemthing they are working on. As for taking players out that easily, thats really one of Yao's flaws. His immobility plays a direct result in the success of the front. The reason teams dont do it often is that it IS a gamble, that if gone to enough will burn them. They almost got the lob down to Yao a couple times, not to mention the putback and the other offensive rebound where he got fouled. Those were there because the defense was fronting but wound up behind him when the shots went up. Also, I believe Scola at the FT line is another way the Rockets attack the fronting defense when his man is protecting the basket from Yao. They have numerous options, and honestly I don't care which they go do as long as they know what they want to do and do it. Don't run Chicken Head Cut Off play.
He can. He did knock down those jumpers in his first couple of seasons when he was still a typical finnesse Chinese post player. Throughout the years, he gradually departed with that shot as he got accustomed to the NBA play. In the last 2 seasons, his 18-20 foot jumpshot simply vanished. I always thought Yao should change it up and toss in some occasional jumpers in addition to his post play just to stretch the floor, allowing people like Scola of last night to penetrate. At that point, Yao can just use discretion as to whether to shoot or pass. That would give one more thing that the other team fears.
