Well Carter is injury prone now, but I still don't think they would want to move him. Plus they could get alot better in return than just Mobley and Griffin. Shoot Francis\Carter\Yao would be unstopable even if you have crappy role players. Never gonna happen though, I guess I could wish?
Carter with Francis would be unbelievable, literally... If the rumors are true that Wink wants to play the 2, I think it would be part time, maybe with a good combo guard. There are also rumors of Mobes and MoT for eddie jones, kind of ironic since Mobes idolized Jones as a youth. Don't think Les would do it considering Jones' contract (13-15 mill per season till 2006/7). some trades I do see happening: Chris Wilcox for Eddie Griffin. They know Odom is gone and will want someone to fill his spot at an affordable price, Griffin can play the 3 nicely on the team. We need a 4 that likes to play in the paint with some agressiveness and with Brand most likely staying, he'd be riding the pine again next season. I'm sure Francis would welcome him. Jamal Crawford for potentially the future picks they owe us, maybe a scrub player from our team to make the numbers match. Other players I could see the Rox going after: Lucious Harris Jerry Stackhouse Q. Richardson Andre Miller (maybe) Jon Berry Robert Pack Etan Thomas Jahidi White Corey Maggette Rod Grizzard Jamal Tinsley Roger Mason Menkee Bateer
Thanks Doc, this is some good info, but as you said it's not anything that is really groundbreaking. It's just good to hear that the Rockets are setting their eyes on some players to improve their chances of making the playoffs. I hope that we are able to move Rice's contract for three good players and that Francis can successfully make the move to the 2 spot. This is going to be a very busy and exciting offseason...
Thanks for the summary!!! I liked it actually. Gilbert Arenas would be great. I think he's a restricted free agent. But there is no way we can afford him.... SG- my pick would be Francis....but it's probably going to be Mobley still. Payton is who I really want. He is 35. But he has tons of experience. He is a defensive presence. He is smart. He shares the ball. He can post up... He is still a great player and can maybe teach our other players basketball...but not about assaulting people. If he did come here....we "would have one of the greatest teams ever assembled". But yes. I really want him. I would give up Cuttino Mobley, Kelvin Cato, and Bostjan Nachbar or a 2nd Round Draft Pick for Gary Payton. ELTON BRAND IS MY MIRACLE DREAM! I wish! Cuttino/Eddie/Glen Rice/1st Round Draft Pick for Elton Brand and Quentin Richardson. I WISH!!!!!! PJ Brown would be great too. I don't know.......I wish. He is a good rebounder and uhh...has no moves. But is good presence inside. We can't afford him...unless he accepts MLE. Why would he want to sign with us when he can go to Dallas or Los Angeles or Seattle or a bunch of other better places?
Wow... finally... the end of the thread. Took quite a portion of my day to read everything. I rather like Mobley and I think both he and Francis work great together... now if they just included Yao a bit more into their triangle, things would be great. Nothing that can't be worked on during the offseason. Trade Griffin? I have no real objections, but on my to keep list includes: Francis, Mobley, Posey, and Yao. That's it. Oh yeah, and Cato. Mo T. aren't too bad either... but that's it.
OK, here's my fantasy RealGM trade: Houston trades: PG Moochie Norris (4.3 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 2.4 apg in 16.8 minutes) SG Cuttino Mobley (17.5 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.9 apg in 41.7 minutes) C Kelvin Cato (4.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 17.1 minutes) PF Maurice Taylor (8.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 20.6 minutes) PF Eddie Griffin (8.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.5 minutes) Houston receives: PG Gary Payton (20.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 8.3 apg in 40.1 minutes) SG Michael Redd (15.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 28.2 minutes) PF Elton Brand (18.5 ppg, 11.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 39.6 minutes) PF Chris Wilcox (3.7 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 10.4 minutes) Change in team outlook: +14.4 ppg, +0.8 rpg, and +5.0 apg. L.A. Clippers receives: SG Cuttino Mobley (17.5 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.9 apg in 73 games) PF Eddie Griffin (8.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 77 games) Milwaukee receives: PG Moochie Norris (4.3 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 2.4 apg in 82 games) C Kelvin Cato (4.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 73 games) PF Maurice Taylor (8.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 67 games) TRADE ACCEPTED - You have been assigned Trade ID number 1007163
I think you are misquoting us a bit. Yes, Francis is a better guard, despite his horrible defense. But he tends to shoot best when he massages the ball in the Moochie/KT style and not in the catch-and-shoot mode that a typical, effective 2-guard usually can do well. I honestly believe Mobley's catch-and-shoot 3 was more money than Francis's, but I don't have facts to back me up on this, it's just my perception. Perhaps Francis has it in him, so I'd be willing to experiment, but if we trade Mobley and get a PG, it may not be possible to switch back, so it's a risk. We need at least one catch-and-shoot 3 guy to be on every night to take pressure off Yao. Rice is too inconsistent and may not be around anyway. Same with Posey. steddinotayto, The only issue I disagree with is Murphy. Not sure what you have against Murphy. He most certainly does not jack up threes, he only shot fourteen this year. Wouldn't you like a PF that averages a double-double? (granted, GS is run-and-gun and tends to miss alot, but he at least will bring it every night)
i have nothing against murphy but i rather have an inside presence...a guy that goes down low and posts up AND rebounds. Murphy avgs. a double-double and i'll respect that BUT it's just in the scheme of things...we have far too many shooters and not enough rebounders. that's why i suggested a player like PJ Brown who is more of a low post person.
Very good choices. Tinsley does not HAVE to score, he has to be able to distribute the ball. And he's good at that. Odem adds height and slashing ability (like a taller Mobley). Who ever we get at PF should be able to do PF things. Randolph is a POWER FOWARD! Out of Tinsley, Odem, and Brand, any of them would be great! I wish we could get Brent Barry!
yeah but in the half court his defender will just play help and make doubling Yao very easy, we need a player he can knock down the wide open J, Tinsley would have more chance punting it from the outside.
Fair enough, he's not so effective down low. But Murphy has much more versatility than Griffin at this point though, and would hit his mid-range shots that our guards and Yao dish out. We have Yao as our primary post-up guy already (at least one hopes he can be the guy); not sure if two post-up threats on the floor would or would not be desirable. Hakeem and CB would just take turns when they were here... More than that, TM seems like an ideal role player for us - won't demand too much (the rock or a giant payday) but his rebounding numbers and steady improvement suggest he is willing to do what it takes to win. Griffin would fit the bill fine too but his commitment level (i.e. slow growth, irresponsible behavior) worries me. He was my favorite player for a while too.
Golden State trades: PF Danny Fortson (3.5 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 13.1 minutes) SG Jason Richardson (15.6 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 32.9 minutes) PG Gilbert Arenas (18.3 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 6.3 apg in 35.0 minutes) Golden State receives: PG Andre Miller (13.6 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 6.7 apg in 36.4 minutes) SF Corey Maggette (16.8 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.3 minutes) SF Morris Peterson (14.1 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.3 apg in 36.0 minutes) Change in team outlook: +7.1 ppg, -0.2 rpg, and +0.9 apg. Houston trades: C Kelvin Cato (4.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 17.1 minutes) SG Cuttino Mobley (17.5 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.9 apg in 41.7 minutes) PF Eddie Griffin (8.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.5 minutes) Future First Round Pick Houston receives: PG Gilbert Arenas (18.3 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 6.3 apg in 82 games) PF Elton Brand (18.5 ppg, 11.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 62 games) C Wang Zhizhi (4.4 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 41 games) Change in team outlook: +10.6 ppg, +1.8 rpg, and +4.8 apg. L.A. Clippers trades: PF Elton Brand (18.5 ppg, 11.3 rpg, 2.5 apg in 39.6 minutes) SF Lamar Odom (14.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 3.6 apg in 34.3 minutes) PG Andre Miller (13.6 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 6.7 apg in 36.4 minutes) SF Corey Maggette (16.8 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.3 minutes) C Wang Zhizhi (4.4 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.1 minutes) L.A. Clippers receives: SG Jason Richardson (15.6 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 3.0 apg in 82 games) PF Eddie Griffin (8.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 77 games) SG Vince Carter (20.6 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 3.3 apg in 43 games) Future First Round Pick (Rockets) Change in team outlook: -23.1 ppg, -13.9 rpg, and -7.6 apg. Toronto trades: SG Vince Carter (20.6 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 3.3 apg in 34.2 minutes) SF Morris Peterson (14.1 ppg, 4.4 rpg, 2.3 apg in 36.0 minutes) Toronto receives: PF Danny Fortson (3.5 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 0.7 apg in 17 games) C Kelvin Cato (4.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 73 games) SG Cuttino Mobley (17.5 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.9 apg in 73 games) SF Lamar Odom (14.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 3.6 apg in 49 games) Change in team outlook: +5.4 ppg, +12.3 rpg, and +1.9 apg. Reasons why: Warriors: They replace thier backcourt (Arenas might just leave) with Miller and Maggete and lose a pf in Fortson (they have plenty of pfs) for a swingman they need in Mo Peterson. This gives the Warriors more of a scoring punch. Miller is a great pg and can lead this team that is not filled with players playing for a contract. Projected line up: Miller Maggete Peterson Jamison Foyle Rockets: Rockets know francis is going to play the 2. Arenas is an awesome pg that can score and pass. This back court is just as deadly in scoring. Brand is the prize, even though rocks give up on Griffen. Brand is what the Rockets need to get to the next level. Zhi Zhi is a great complimentary backup to Ming. Taylor Brand can play some 5 too. Projected line up: Francis Arenas Posey Brand Ming Clippers: Instead of having to pay three max contracts to get all the scoring from Miller Brand and Odom, they pay one max contract for Carter and get a great sg in Richardson and get a young pf in Griffen, both of which have small contracts. By the stats it looks like they get the short end of the stick but remember the numers and stats are misleading. Not all the clippers played well together everygame. Brand was injured for a while inflating otheres numbers. They will miss Brand and Griffen and Wilcox won't compensate. But Richardson and Carter would make the Clippers game one exiting team that can score in bunchs. Q. Richardson and Dooling and Jaric with more time can now debut their talents. TThey love draft picks and get a Future 1st round from Rockets. This is the team that will bring in the fans and make the money. Projected line up: Jaric Richardson Carter Griffen/ Wilcox Ely (Olowacandi?) Raptors: They lose the superstar of this trade. Does is make sense for them? Well the fact that Raptors played quite well when Carter was out shows that this team doesn't need one superstar, it needs more talent all around. Odom doesn't exactly replace Carter by himself, but he does add passing and rebounding, things Carter wasn't great at. They finally get a solid C that can play all year in Cato. Cato will be a bigger force in the east then west. They also get Mobley who can pick up the scoring. Lastly they get Fortson who has not gotten time on the Warriors. Fortson is a rebounding maching and him and Cato give the Raptors an inside presence with blocking and rebounding. Projected line up: Williams Mobley Odom Davis Cato The trades make sense all around. Of course the trade was set up with the rockets needs in mind so I incorperated what I have heard. We like Brand and Arenas, this makes that happen. I know about the clippers situation and this trade helps them out there. Instead of losing the big three they get a superstar. Hopefully you find some merit to this trade. Please post comments and tell me what you think. Its very complicated and solves a lot of problems. In reality the trades should be a lot simpler.
If it's true I'm glad Rudy is staying. I'd hate to see Eddie go , but if it means getting some muscle inside then I'm all for it. the rockets need an enforcer (where is granville waiters or billy paultz when you need them?? )
True. But what I was taking about is the way the Tinsley is used with the Pacers. They DEPEND on him more to put points on the board in Indiana. But with the Rockets, he wont have the pressure all on his shoulders. Francis would be the main offensive weapon (at the 2). So, you are right regarding that Tinsley should be more open than at Indiana. But he got a lot of criticism because he was missing the outside shot. His shots will be a lot more open in Houston. So he better learn how to hit OPEN 3s! Heh!
TaiMaiShu: Mostly well reasoned, I think. At the very least a fun read. Doesn't take long to find the big hole in the theory though. Of course, trades even half this size have never happened. And without spending an hour on the math, I'm guessing the salaries aren't close to matching. But even if they were, and even with the LAC history, could you really imagine they'd want to give up: I mean, they're crazy but they're not... I mean they're stupid, but they're not... That is to say, they're stupid and crazy, but are they THAT stupid and crazy? Without looking at stats, a 12th seed (weren't they 12th?) that gives up 23 points, 14 boards and 7+ assists has to be, far and away, the worst team in the history of the league, like, by a mile, right? There's also the matter of us giving up guys we're arguably looking to move and everyone else giving up their top players, but everyone does that in their trade proposals around here. A fun read, though. Thanks.
Wow over 20,000 views this has got to be some sort of record for a thread. Got to post something, just had to be apart of something big... incoming: Stackhouse- to SF Larry Hughes- pg Elton Brand - pf outgoing: Posey Griffin Mobley
Leaving: SG - Mobley PF - Griffin PG - Mooch SF - Rice Arriving: PG - Cassell PF - Brand SG - Berry I cant wait to see Cassell in a Rockets uni again! He will definately provide the veteran leadership at the point guard position that we need.
Reggie, Brad Miller, J Oneal, Artest, Harrington, Mercer, yeah, the Pacers are so depending on Tinsley to score. Tinsley would have to prove he can score consistently in Houston just like he is dared to every night in a Pacers uni. Deny penetration and give him the open jumper and he wont be able to do ****. *shudders at the thought of Tinsley and Posey starting in the same lineup*
