As close to an inside tip as I'll ever get.....I talked to my friend who is good friends with Ex and he said Ex said that he would play in Houston for the LLE. But he also said that if EX took the the 1.7 (?) this year he would get 5 mill next year, which I believe is patently wrong since he would only be eligible for the league mandated percentage raise. I certainly wouldn't want Ex at 35+ for 5 mil. So it ain't worth much but it was fun to almost have an inside tip. And as far as I remember Doc never talked in riddles it was the late great Popeye/Oilpere', who either died or was only connected via RudyT because he hasn't posted since JVG got here.
Maybe he's expecting to take our MLE if he signs here. If that's the case then forget it. We need the MLE to land young quality role players that can grow with our stars. Not yet another stopgap solution.
I think what Doc means by the "2 for 1, not 4 for 1 deals" is that we are involved with talks to trade one of our 2-guards (shooting guards) for a 1-guard (point guard). We do NOT have a deal in place to trade one of our 4's (power fowards,e.g. Vin Baker, Weatherspoon, Howard) for a 1-guard. So I guess look for David Wesley to be traded for a point guard at some point. Or possibly Bobby Sura. But there are no current takers for Weatherspoon or Howard.
Correct, this is how TE's get created. For example, say we traded Baker and Ward for Knight (Char) or our favorite, Ty Lue (Atl), signed at 2 mil year. (I think NO is still under the cap, so Claxton or Dickau are other possibilities). Those team are under the cap and can take those players. We get the signed player and TE is created that = Baker + Ward - Knight/Lue/Claxton. That is too bad Sac did the Hart deal. We should have done that. I am afraid Knight (or Claxton) with their lack of a 3 point shot eventually would catch up to us. Dickau or Lue are not an upgrade over James/Sura. I don't think I would do a two year LLE with NVE, let alone promise something like that. NVE can play for his home team for the vet min, or not at all. 1 year LLE at the most. I took it as we were not talking about 4 players for one major player, rather 2 players for 1. But I could see it meaning Wesley for a PG. Earl Watson seems as reasonable as any. Some combination of Wesley/Ward. To do it strait with Memphis we would have to sign Watson at 5.1 mil. If we got a 3rd team (under the cap) to take on Ward, we could start the contract at 3.7 mil. I'd consider giving up both 06 picks--our 1st, NY 2nd--to pull this off. Wesley (w or w/o Ward) plus 1st and 2nd for Tinsley is a no brainer if we could pull that off. That would be even better.
Stack: I thought he meant that too. But he when he referenced "4 for 1" specifically, the conspiracy theorist in me says that he literally meant a power forward for a point. We kept trying to package Weatherspoon and Howard (a pair of 4's) for Damon Stoudamire (a 1-guard). Literal 4 for 1 trades are very rare and hard to get done. Why even mention 4 players for 1 player, when the guy says only 2 players for 1 player is being discussed. Back around the NBA Draft time, we heard rumors about Sura and Wesley (a pair of 2's) for some players. I think that might be more of what Doc was implying, since Doc normally throws us a bunch of end-of-round's. His post if interpretted literally is too straight forward for the norm.
I don't see the Bobcats trading Knight when they cannot be sure about how Felton will turn out. They will probably platoon both of them like they did with Knight and Hart last year. Hopefully we won't sign NVE, even for the LLE. Don't see West giftwrapping Watson to us either. The Tinsley deal is indeed a no brainer and a major coup if we could pull it off. I would be willing to take Croshere with him if all we have to do is send picks and bad contracts.
Perhaps the pure point guard that Doc is alluding to is Andre Miller. The Nuggets are said to be the leading candidate to sign Marko Jaric with their MLE, which could mean Miller or Boykins are on their way out. Sura, Wesley, and maybe a #1 for Andre Miller would be one of the few "2 for 1" deals I can think that actually work salary-wise and would net us a pure point guard. Miller makes close to $9 mil a year (the next 4 years) and Wesley+Sura combine for about $8.5 mil.
from DocRocket: Since Stro's acquisition Spanoulis may be the most important decision we make for the rest of the off-season. $500,000 is enough to buy out his contract after next season, but if he continues his "wondrous" (CD's word) improvement his Greek team could give him a new contract without a ridiculous raise that could prevent him from us buying him out under the new CBA. Or his Greek team could dangle an extra million and Spanoulis might think being home looks pretty good. I'm not saying he will be a good NBA player, but there's a good chance that if he were drafted this year he would have been a number 1 pick. As T-Mac and management (DS offer) have clearly identified the pg position as a need, we can't risk losing a good prospect who's 6'4, has speed and is a playmaker. I'm a big fan of Luther's but arguably Spanoulis has much more credibility now than Head (rats, I couldn't avoid it ) as a pg. We have other fish to fry (Deke, Barry and possible trades) but as I understand the situation VS needs to be in camp this year and be sent to the NBDL if necessary. The Euro-bashing here as of late has taken a different tone, but guys like Darko, Nene and Boki were all taken on upside and not accomplishments. When Dallas drafted Spanoulis it was the same thing. If CD's praise ("he really dominated his league") is merely a jab at Cuban/the Nelsons that's fine. But that's not CD's style and it's not like him to be effusive about any prospect. Normally it is "we really like this guy/we think he has tremendous potential". And NBA scouts have compared Spanoulis to Nash. If you can get a real playmaker on this team with T-Mac, Yao and Stro we may not even need the guy to be able to shoot if he can handle the ball and drive and dish. Sura and James are not natural playmakers and Yao's and T-Mac's games do suffer from that. If Spanoulis winds up in the NBDL and thrives he could be a welcome addition at the trade deadline when Mooch, Ward and Wesley could all likely be gone. It's possible James would be in that mix as well. Even if the risk of losing Spanoulis is minimal there's a chance that we could benefit this season from getting this guy on the floor with our frontcourt.
That is another pipedream I would welcome cheerfully... shame that it won't happen. They certainly could get more than our baggage for him. I will try and keep my expectations low. But a Doc thread always brings incredible scenarios. I remember a couple of years ago where Doc mentioned something about a PG and xxx seconds and someone actually found an article where Bibby sealed a win with a shot in those exact same seconds... which meant that we were getting Bibby, of course!
Now is NOT the time to bring over Spanoulis. We don't have an active or inactive (e.g., NDBL) roster spot for him. We can only sign 15 players total, with Deke we have filled them (no LLE signing, no Baxter, no Glover). We have to waive a guy or do a 2-1 trade just to open a single LLE spot or vet min spot. The best thing is for him to grow another year in Europe while we retain his rights and he doesn't take up a roster spot. With 5 or so expiring contracts this year, next year Spanoulis can come over. If Spanoulis blows up and is the best guy in Europe next year, we can always use part of our MLE as the Pacers did with the bets European guard of recent years. This is extremely remote he is that good, but we could always do it. Besides the idea Spanoulis can come in an outplay Sura or James this year is very, very remote (same is true of Head). Let's watch how well the Indy guy does, who was the best guard in Europe. Also consider Manu as a 25 year old vet also had a major adjustment period and didn't start for a few years. Head and Span are both born in 82, since Head is under contract, won't have the same kind of cultural transition/adjustement, and has to take up a slot in the 15 person max roster, it is better Span waits one year.
I think Minnesota would welcome a Howard for Cassell trade. They BADLY need depth in the frontcourt, and badly want to dump cassell. I think we would have to offer a first or something alone with it, but a 4 for 1 trade matches perfectly for cassell. A pf for a pg.. Just pure speculation..
I would do it in a second. Then sign Baxter. Yes, we would definitely get worse at the PF position, but would get short-term help at PG, and we would get rid of the only not-so-good long-term contract left.
from Desert Scar: CBA experts please inform me because the whole scenario I came up with could be wrong, but as I understand it Spanoulis' team can can calculate to the penny what contract extension/raise it would take to prevent us (or any other NBA team) from signing Spanoulis for x years, or until the new CBA expires. Desert Scar you probably know that I'm all for Glover/Baxter getting a shot and I realize roster spots are a huge problem/improbability. But Head/Glover/Baxter are all as unlikely to contribute significantly this year as Spanoulis. I just can't see risking a very significant prospect who has Spanoulis' purported speed/size/skills as a playmaker if there's even the possibility this is our only shot. If CD is certain we have no fear about being able to bring him to camp 14 months from now then you and I have no disagreement. Regardless, depending on who we really are after in a trade as Doc reported, we may see some strange deals that do nothing but create an extra roster spot or 2. I've said it before, but whenever Spanoulis gets here he'll still be a rookie pg and not likely to be very good or play much under JVG. If our staff really believes in this kid it can only be advantageous to get him here and play with T-Mac and Yao and see what happens. I feel the same way about Head, but I firmly believe he was drafted to play D for real minutes at the 2 next season and hope he can develop into an NBA pg. It's not outrageous to suggest Spanoulis' contributions could be better than Head's, and we know there's no risk of risking losing Head (sorry.)
If Spanoulis was a 1st round pick, we could get in a bind, because those contracts have specified amounts. But as a 2nd round pick, we can sign him using any tool available for other FAs, plus the 500K buy out. Though extremely doubtfull, we can use our MLE (up to 5 mil) if needed--well beyond anything being regularly paid in Europe. Jasikevicius, considered the best guard in Europe, wanted a 10 mil 3 year contract and got it from the Pacers. In our case it is our advantage than Span was a 2nd and not a 1st. The earliest 2nds may turn out more valuable that the latest 1sts for this reason, for instance our 06 NY 2nd (early 30s) might be better than our own 06 1st--the 30th pick I really doubt either Head or Span will be ready to contribute this year, and I'd say a greater chance either Baxter or Glover could. Those guys have excelled in summer leagues, and played OK in some NBA regular season action. I really can't say whether Head or Span has more promise, or is more ready, but since 1) Head is under contract and has to take a roster spot even if sent to the NDBL, and 2) we have 3-4 contracts/roster spots of likely non-contributers with expiring contracts, it is better Span waits one more year while we retain his rights. If we did get rosters spots, and as we don't have rights for Baxter or Glover who have show promise, I'd rather add them if spots became available while we hold on Spans' rights while he works on his game and develoment in Europe.
Thanks for the info Doc, that's one more reason why this site rocks....and why I can't keep myself from checking for updates every few hours. Yes, I truly am an addict.
Desert Scar, thanks for taking it easy on me because I missed this: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=99820 somehow. Spanoulis seems to really want to be here and an opt-out clause in his contract gives me confidence he does, and makes my argument moot. But I still would like some clarification. I know as a second round pick we could sign him for whatever, but there was that thread (which I can't find) that included an article about how the new CBA is unrealistic about the maximum buyout of $500,00 is in the European leagues' right now. I don't know if it's a CBA or FIBA restriction, but there's apparently a percentage of any salary that must be met to buy out any FIBA contract. Desert Scar I'm pretty sure you read the thread (that I can't find) and I think you responded there. It was a very provacative, long and dense article and really it was the first thing I've read about the new CBA that disturbed me. I just wanted to clarify why I was concerned here. In most cases young pg's are a crapshoot, I just wanted to make sure we could hang on to one who may be seemingly less so and has created a buzz around him. I believe pgs need time with their teams to really gel and that sometimes takes years even if they are talented. Our nucleus of T-Mac, Yao and Stro are so young that I really want a young playmaker in the mix now so that 2 or 3 years from now when it's likely our frontcourt will be all in there prime we have a guy that runs the team the way they and JVG want. I just don't see us really being near the top 3 teams in the league right now, and I don't see us acquiring anyone that will really get us there immediately. I want to go young now as is possible even if the kids ride the pine.
