Yes, you are talking about the current situaton. But others are talking about changing that. Part humor and part serious. The Lohan or sports gear should be taken with a grain of salt. But you missed the whole point...
I'd partly agree with you, but I have a different opinion. I don't think that the Jihad combatants fight for "glory in the eyes of their friends and family". Here's my thoughts: When you're poor.... I mean really, really miserably poor, and you live in a hole in the ground, all you have is your family, friends, and your religion. That's it. The government does nothing to help you. You barely have any personal belongings. You have no job or career... you just have family, friends, and religion. And when your family and friends are killed, you have nothing left but religion and anger. The anger unbalances you, and your anger can be easily channeled by the leaders of a violent faction (this is where I agree with you). Before you know it, you've been programmed to dedicate your life and death to a cause which claims to support the one thing you have left: religion. I wouldn't say that they do it for fame or glory. And I wouldn't even say that they do it for their country. In my opinion, they do it partly because they feel like they are standing up for their religious beliefs, but mostly out of a sense of revenge and hatred for those who they believe are responsible for killing that which is most precious to them. -- droxford
Good post. But it's important to bring up differences of the loyal militants (possibly secular), some nationalist (Iraq citizens), and others become religious fundamentalist (those leading a Jihad in the name of Allah). It's a thin line. Of course some American's just clump them all of them into one group: terrorist. It's "easy" like that (heh...), right? Anyways... Your post was talking about the later (religious fundamentalist). Anger and fundamentalism seems to be key ingredients. Because, not all of them came from poor families. Some were well educated in other countries; had money. Yet, their anger + fundamentalism lead to the terrorist desires. I liked your use of the word "programmed." In regards to dedicating ones life to a cause..." Extreme religion + anger...sigh...
I agree with much of this. People often overlook (and sometimes, particularly here in the U.S., people deliberately downplay) the power that poverty has over shaping one's worldview. When one is saturated in desperation and surrounded by misery, and/or one is young but has no realistic hope for a chance at making a better future, one then has little to lose by dying. And, to compound the problem, if someone also truly (or wishfully) believes that killing and/or death will lead them to a blessed afterlife where they will no longer suffer the ignominy of poverty and will instead be elevated to the highest status and enjoy the keenest pleasures - what then? The choice seems obvious in those circumstances. I also agree with DavidS and Gene that the overfulness but aimlessness of youth becomes a source of power to those who can seduce the young by offering them an extreme path of action that appears meaningful and justified. But the young and poor are particularly apt to fall into this way of life.
droxford --good post. DavidS ----> i think you have it all wrong..... Your talking about Bin Laden and branding him to be the typical "terrorist". Bin Laden was kicked out of his home country and went to Afghan where the U.S trained him to help fight of the russians. Basically the guy felt that the U.S used him like a pond for their own cause just like they used his home country leaders. politics? Osmama and Al-Queida were involved in Opium trade. He is a Fundamentalist??? i never heard of a religous drug dealer ....basically what i mean is that politics are the reasons to what is happening across the world....not religon....that's just a reason that has to be told to everyone....because explaining the political reasons would create arguments....where the truth will be hard to prove. anyway DavidS your talking about two different situations....Palestine &"terrorists" are two different topics....the Palestine situation is well summarized by droxford's post....a rational person does not decide to go kill innocent people because of someone else telling them too...and the other terrorist in the world are just poilitical freedom fighters(Alqueida).
I agree. You misunderstood my post...Osamma is NOT the "typical terrorist." I think we need to be clear on what our definitions are because we are not on the same page. Lets take the word: Fundamentalism. Is Osmama a fundamentalist really? No, not in a religious sense. But I was using that term loosely. Sorry about that. I should have been more specific. Let me use a world that will isolate the "terrorist" part of the *real* religion. I think the word we are looking for is: Islamism! Not Islam! Islam is the religion. Islamism on the other hand is the politicized version of Islam. It is this strain of "religion" that is really the heart of this terrorist cause (Islamism is what some Muslims refer to when they say their religion has been "highjacked" by these political ideologues). So, when I said, fundamentalism + anger, I left out some details. I wasn't blaming the religion itself. Osmama is a special case (religion + politics + drugs = tools used by Ossamma). I was just pointing out that there are many other followers that have money like he did and are "educated." They have money and wealth but also have subscribed to the politicized version of Islam. droxford and Gene post was talking about the core group of recruits (poor, idle, young). Which I agree with. And yes, they are right about the populace, that there are "leaders" will recruit these "desperate kids* to use in their cause. I was just pointing out some of the differences in their roles/class. A type of hierarchy (the "brains" and the "followers.") I wasn't talking about Palestine. That's another issue. Palestine? We were taking about young kids, who for reasons *they* think are important (programed to, by ideology, or politics, or anger...). So, when you wrote, "Tell them to kill innocent people..." You are simplifying what I was TRYING to say above. I wasn't talking about walking up to some regluar citizen and saying, "Hey, will you blow-up some people today for me?" Palestine is beyond that and much more complex (off-topic a bit). I think you miss understood my first post. Hey droxford! Were you talking about Palestine? Becaue I got a sense that your post was regarding Afghanistan and Iraq Jihad. I feel that Palestine has some similarities of "youthful (stay on theme)" programing. But their issues have many differences; Jewish settlements/disputes and history of war. Some religious based, some not. The politics part is everywhere. I don't think we can ever escape that. Personally, I cringe when politics and religion are mixed. Even in Christianity; see Bush.
DavidS.... well sorry i just wanted you to be more specific because it would be wrong for a naive reader to get the wrong message...i agree with much of what you say...just don't want people to get the wrong idea about the religon...sadly the image of the religon is tarished by a few people who are taking political positions and rationalizing them by using religon to free them of their guilt resulting from their actions. I just don't think any situation is as black and white as you see it represented on the news....sadly this can be said about most things on the news.
There are alot of good explanations in here regarding the roots of terrorist behavior and I think they are probably all correct. Poverty, revenge, religious fanaticism and untapped adolescent (or if you're a believer in Freud and evolutionary psychology, sexual) energy all are reasons behind terrorism, depending on the individual. I'd also argue that there are just some crazy people out there who would be doing something like this regardless of their background - Bin Laden may even be such a type. We all knew the sicko kid in school who liked to torture animals or blow stuff up all the time, and I would guess that such types exist everywhere. However, I think the crazy types are definitely the small minority in such groups. One thing I'd also propose that it is much the interaction between all these 'types' that cause terrorism. If any one of these individuals existed in a "terrorist vaccuum" (by that, I mean they were not surrounded by terrorist-approving environments), they might not turn to terrorism. However, when you group together people seeking revenge, people whose poverty makes them want to lash out at their perceived and/or actual oppressors, people who believe that violence against infidels is somehow 'holy' and people who are just plain crazy, you essentially are creating a time bomb. The act that sets things off may seem minor, but when you have all these elements together, minor is all it takes. Good observation by Gene Peterson.
