If you had read the article, you would see that the law does not punish Muslims - it actually frees half of them from an oppression that 77 % of them according to a survey perceive as oppression. You would also have read in the article that there are Muslim countries that prohibit the veil as well in many circumstances. Saying this law punishes Muslims is simply wrong, just as thinking that I would take delight in it if that was the intention of the law. Just because I post a lot about the issue doesn't mean I have anything against Muslims as people.
It's not the posting a lot, it's the hating them praying, hating them being upset that you support insulting their religion, and support telling Muslims what they can and can't wear in public that shows your hatred for Muslims.
Why so defensive? - they can pray all they want, my issue was one with praying in public in general, apparently this rubbed a lot of people the wrong way (muslim or non-muslim) - "insulting their religion"...again, why so defensive? - aren't Muslims telling their women what they can and can't wear in public? Does that mean they hate their women?
oh yeah, sure I am. You, however, are enlightened wise man. You've proven that with all your incorrect knowledge of islam.
So enlighten me about the great Islam since you proclaim you have study it? Don't give me that BS it's only the extremists Muslims are causing concerns. By the look of thing moderate Muslims are also picking up their pitch forks and torches. I have to LOL'ed at people saying they've met and talk to Muslims women claiming they wanted to wear it because it's part of their culture and ect. Really, what is she suppose to say to you? How is she suppose to trust or know if you are either a Muslim or going to rat on her if she tell you otherwise? This Burqa or Hadith or whatever you want to call it I don't see it as a fashion or a cultural thing. More like a demand by their deep religion oppression or husbands against their women.
The Hadith a fashion? I'm not saying Islam is great, or that I'm a knowledgeable student of Islam. I even said that I know little of it. But what little I know is enough to dispell the false information that you've bought. As for women you claim they choose to wear the clothing, who knows why they choose it. It is arrogant for you to think they know what they really want more than they do. It's wrong for one person to think they can make decisions for whole groups of people which is what you are advocating when you say that anyone who would want to wear the burkha doesn't really want to. Who are you to know what they really want more than they know? Why not give them the freedom to choose. I'm waiting for you to show a link or evidence that all the moderate Muslims are grabbing the proverbial torches and pitchforks.
LOL, I've got to give ATW credit, he tries to be a little discrete about his distaste of Muslims, I like how you are all out hateful. Good stuff. "Burqa or Hadith or whatever you want to call it", jeez man you could do a little research and find out the difference between a Burqa and a Hadith. Just shows how little interest you have in learning about something you despise. Funny how you say Muslim women are scared to speak their own minds because they are afraid to be ratted on. You are too funny.
I do not have a distaste of Muslims. I have issues with some of the aspects of how Islam is practiced today by some, and what that leads to. That's a difference. I have nothing against someone personally because he or she identifies himself or herself as Muslim. It's a sad state of affairs if you cannot question or criticize without getting labeled a hater or without getting hateful responses.
Yeah I got a real good laugh about letting them have the freedom to choose when we all know pretty well they don't have that freedom to choose from. Even if they are given that freedom they still will not come out because if they are under strict and abusive household. The only way is for them to have that freedom is to make a law for them. I mean what's the I meant hijab and not "hadith". There are plenty of pictures in "Draw Mohammad Day". If you think they are extremists then that's like a whole city is full of them.
ATW, what should I have for dinner? I'm afraid I'll choose to eat something unhealthy. I'm pressured by the media to eat fastfood.
He's talking about the women who DO have that choice. This French ban impedes on their choice to wear one or not. Quit being so dense and obtuse. There's two groups who are affected by this French ban. The Muslim women who choose to wear it and the Muslims women who are forced to wear it. You are pretending to care about the ones who are forced to wear it, while not giving a crap about the ones whose rights have been violated. Nice hypocrisy coming from you. The Muslim women who choose to wear it won't feel as comfortable as they did before, and the Muslim women who are forced to wear it won't be seen outside. How you can consider this ban even remotely justified intrigues me. You fervently fight for the right to freedom of expression/speech when wanting to draw Muhammad, but do not give a rat's ass about freedom of expression here. You are the definition of a hypocrite.
Again you apparently know more about the lives of Muslim people than they know about their own lives. I wonder how they aren't flocking to you right now asking you to make decisions for them, since you know so much more about them, and their background than they do themselves. It's odd that it hasn't worked that way.
Didn't you say you are in Turkey? Isn't it a bit late for dinner then? Anyway, I recommend some good old pork chops .
Why do you sound so angry? You almost remind me of those guys who hold up the banners at the demos. You are right about this part: "There's two groups who are affected by this French ban. The Muslim women who choose to wear it and the Muslims women who are forced to wear it." That's why I said in one post that I am a bit on the fence about the law. It is true that this law also has an impact on the women who actually freely choose to wear it (even though that does not factor in things like peer pressure, etc., which also play a role in the decision to wear it). I just think that as it affects both women who choose to wear it and those that are forced to do so, protecting the interest of those who are forced to wear it outweighs the interest of those who actually want to wear it, especially if you also consider the negative effects of the veil on integration and on communication.
So freedom of expression can be thrown out the window? All in the name of protecting the interest of those who are forced to wear it? Last I checked, we are equal in the face of law. Not equal as discernible by our interests.
Honestly, if it comes down to "we're doing it because of the forceful men" I don't think there's a legal justification. When we say that it doesn't hurt anyone else, there's a reason. The reason is that if it does hurt anyone else, then the law should be applicable to the person who is hurting others. In this case, the law is punishing the women but... they are not the ones hurting others. The ones hurting others are forceful husbands. If forceful husbands are the problem, then there should be a law prohibiting husbands from being forceful. Have social services people visit niqabi people because force is common in their circles. Have them do a test. Sign an undertaking that they are not forced. So on and so forth. The law is enforced on one group of people to forbid another group of people. It makes no sense. It's like me forbidding you from wearing a blue shirt because your mom forces you to wear a blue shirt everyday. It's non-sense. At best, France could not find a way to solve the problem of forceful husbands, and with unprecedented lack of effort decided to solve the problem by banning the niqab. That is the best possible characterization of the French. For me to accept that this is the best way to free the women or stop husbands from oppressing their wives, I'd have to be looking through some Halaal beer goggles.