I don't think the head scarf is banned by the law in France. I don't like it, but I view it as less problematic, because at least you can see the facial expressions of the person you are dealing with (note I am now describing my personal feelings about it, not what is or should be the law). I would explain the first case as the children being less traditional because they grew up in a free society, so they free themselves from sill head scarf rules. I personally know of cases where the father (and also the mother) tried to "oppress" the daughter into wearing it, but despite the pressure, at some point they broke free from this forced nonsense. The second case is some more worrying trend I have also witnessed a few times: That the children are actually more radical than their parents. In their quest for identity, they fall for the more radical preachers, while their parents have already adapted to a more liberal society.
It is in fact irrelevant. The people are not pro-dictatorship, and they are not unaware of democratic values, so their views are just as credible as yours. You can, however, disregard the views of the actual dictators. That makes sense. You have no idea if you are in the minority or majority in Europe. Two islamophobic countries don't constitute all the views of Europe. Also, are you suggesting that this board does not know what democracy or secularism is? Once again, with your elitist attitude. Typical.
Thumbs up to the burqa ban! Thumbs down to this: Seriously, Mathloom, why are you so adamantly fighting for this: I prefer the form of protest these girls chose: Too bad they would probably be stoned in several places in the muslim world for doing this. Vive la France!
I don't have the time to read this entire thread (nor would I want to), but what is Mathloom's exact position on the issue?
Kind of hard to understand where exactly he stands, but he is definitely against the burqa ban and it excites him a lot. He also seems to acknowledge that in many cases, the veil and burqa are actually worn because of pressure from abusive husbands, and he seems to think that having the ban in place will just make it worse for the women as their husbands will not even let them leave the house at all then. That's my TL;DR understanding of his posts on this thread. Mathloom, please feel free to correct me if I misunderstood.
That's kind of like saying women shouldn't be able to vote, because if they do, one day they might run for public office. Nonsense.
I think that, like me, he's on the side that grants the most freedom to these women. He's personally against the Burqua wearing but also against govt. restricting women who would have the freedom to choose whether or not they adhere to that particular custom. Maybe I'm wrong in assuming most people like freedoms as much as I do, and believe that allowing the most freedom for these women is the best way to move forward.
I'm all for personal freedoms, but the anonymity of these women created by wearing the burqua is a bit much. It's sort of like people who wear ski masks while nowhere near a ski resort...kind of creepy.
Thank you. I fully agree. It is creepy. People who have no interest in communicating with other people cover their face (if it is voluntary). Forcing someone into a mobile jail like that (if it is not voluntary) deprives these women of all personality and identity. This is the opposite of freedom. People who rob a bank cover their face.
miniskirts are often worn because of abusive pimps (and even abusive husbands). many feminist historians think the bra is an instrument of suppression? (god bless the bra, though, speaking as a brah) my students often wear big stupid floppy hats that hide half their faces, along with big sunglasses. I'd like to ban that also. the neckbeard is often sported by sociopaths. I get some of the reasoning behind this. I do. But it's funny to start drawing these lines. If you really need to ID people, as a matter of public safety, can a ban on sunglasses and plastic surgery be far behind?
You're completely full of hyperbole. Do you have any evidence that any woman wearing a burqa has ever robbed a bank? Furthermore, how do you respond to the charge that you are in fact limiting women's freedom of expression by making it illegal to wear a burqa to make you feel more comfortable about your fears and hatred of Islamic culture? Instead of enlightening women on their rights as free citizens you want to force them to behave as you want because you want to project your morality on them. You're making an assumption that all women who wear veils are doing so by threat of violence and not because they're choosing to do wear it. From what I have read, some women actually like wearing these types of things because they feel less pressure to conform to some western standard of beauty, ie having to wear make up or wearing their hair a certain way to fit in to society. Do you have any evidence that shows an overwhelming percentage of veil/burqa wearers do it out of fear of violence?
A woman in the US: http://www.wbaltv.com/r/24214805/detail.html A man in the US: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20013497-504083.html A man in Australia: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8667330.stm Two women in France: http://www.france24.com/en/20100210...s-sarkozy-ban-national-identity-france-muslim This search took about 10 seconds. I'm sure there are more cases.
I believe there is a difference between creepy and illegal. Do you believe ski masks should be banned in the US?
Your question is obviously whether wearing them should be banned. E.g. in banks? You bet. In a ski resort? No.
