I think of it more as rightists in France don't want to be reminded that there are cultures and religions out there besides their own.
Interesting that you would say that a survey that shows that the majority of muslim women is in favor of this law is "irrelevant". Seems to reflect the way a lot of men in this "culture" treat the opinion of their women.
I know several couples working in the petrochemical field in Muslim countries. their wives have no problem wearing the items they are required to wear and carrying the written permission of their husbands for them to be outside of their home. Multiculturalism fail.
That would be relevant except that it's not about france. Unless you're suggesting this is some sort of retaliation?
Which Muslim country? Saudi? I don't think there is any country other than Saudi (and Afghanistan, but I doubt Afghanistan has a "petrochemical field") that requires women to wear certain "items" and I also know that in Saudi people don't need written permission of their husbands for them to be outside of their home. So, I don't know what you are speaking of.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf16.html MYTH: "Women's rights are now protected in the Arab world." FACT: In most Arab countries, the Shari'a, or Islamic law, defines the rules of traditional social behavior. Under the law, women are accorded a role inferior to that of men, and are therefore discriminated against with regard to personal rights and freedoms. As Middle East expert Daniel Pipes explains: "In the Islamic view...female sexuality is thought of as being so powerful that it constitutes a real danger to society." Therefore, unrestrained females constitute "the most dangerous challenge facing males trying to carry out God's commands." In combination, females' "desires and their irresistible attractiveness give women a power over men which rivals God's."2 "Left to themselves," Pipes continues, "men might well fall victim to women and abandon God," resulting in civil disorder among believers. In traditional thought, Pipes notes, women pose an internal threat to Islamic society similar to the external one represented by the infidel. Traditionally, the Arab woman marries at a young age to a man of her father's choice. A husband is entitled to divorce any time, even against his wife's will, by merely declaring verbally that this is his intention. Although the image of the egalitarian woman is slowly developing within some more secular Arab states, it remains largely confined to urban centers and upper-class circles. Ritual sexual mutilation of females is still common in rural areas of Egypt, Libya, Oman and Yemen. Furthermore, laws that restrict women's rights remain in force in almost all Arab countries. In Syria, a husband can prevent his wife from leaving the country. In Egypt, Iraq, Libya, Jordan, Morocco, Oman and Yemen, married women must have their husbands' written permission to travel abroad, and they may be prevented from doing so for any reason. In Saudi Arabia, women must obtain written permission from their closest male relative to leave the country or travel on public transportation between different parts of the kingdom. According to the UN, "utilization of Arab women's capabilities through political and economic participation remains the lowest in the world in quantitative terms….In some countries with elected national assemblies, women are still denied the right to vote or hold office. And one in ever two Arab women can neither read nor write."3 In a Saudi Shari'a court, the testimony of one man equals that of two women. In Kuwait, the male population is allowed to vote, while women are still disenfranchised. Egypt, Morocco, Jordan and Saudi Arabia all have laws stating that a woman's inheritance must be less than that of her male siblings (usually about half the size). Moroccan law excuses the murder or injury of a wife who is caught in the act of committing adultery; yet women are punished for harming their husbands under the same circumstances. Wife-beating is a relatively common practice in Arab countries, and abused women have little recourse. As the State Department has noted regarding Jordan (and most of the Arab world): "Wife beating is technically grounds for divorce, but the husband may seek to demonstrate that he has authority from the Koran to correct an irreligious or disobedient wife by striking her."4 In Saudi Arabia, restrictions against women are among the most extreme in the Arab world. Saudi women may not marry non-Saudis without government permission (which is rarely given); are forbidden to drive motor vehicles or bicycles; may not use public facilities when men are present; and are forced to sit in the backs of public buses, segregated from men. At Riyadh's King Saud University, professors lecture to rooms of men while women watch via closed-circuit television from distant all-female classrooms.5 "[Islamic] Advice columns" in the Saudi Arabian press recommend strict disciplining of women as part of a proper marriage. Women must cover their entire body and face in public, and those who do not are subject to physical harassment from the Saudi religious police, known as the Mutaaw'in. The Saudis even extend their discriminatory treatment to women abroad. During a visit to the United States by Crown Prince Abdullah, for example, the prince's aides requested that no female air traffic controllers be allowed to control his flight into Texas to meet President Bush. They also requested that no women be allowed on the airport tarmac with the jet.6 The UN, international organizations and local human rights rights nongovernmental organizations constantly pressure the regimes in Arab states to improve the state of human rights in general and women's rights in particular. According to UN data, the proportion of women's representation in Arab parliaments is only 3.4% (as opposed to 11.4% in the rest of the world). In addition, 55% of Arab women are illiterate. The Assistant to UN Vice Secretary General, Angela King, publicly called on Arab states to grant women their rights.7 Arab regimes find different ways to deal with the international pressure to improve women's rights. They often prefer to introduce mild improvements in women's status rather than to enacting radical reforms that might contradict their ideology and antagonize conservative elements in the country.
Religion is not the government's business. Domestic violence and women's rights are the government's business.
I was going to disagree, but then I saw the source and can't imagine how I could disagree with a Jew telling Muslims about Islam. Good job man. You've uncovered the myth. Well done.
Tell that to all the countries in the Arab/Muslim world where Sharia law is in place. Exactly. And thus - thumbs up to France for the burqa ban!
So you discount it because it comes from a jew? Are you implying that a jew is less credible than a muslim? What exactly are you disagreeing with? And what is true?
Yaaaaaa, I read that, and I checked each "source" they used. Let me just say that two of the sources were from books by Marty Peretz, and Daniel Pipes. Pipes. A little about each one: Yeah, good one. Let me go ahead and comment on a few other things. I have lived in Saudi, I know many people from Jordan and Egypt and other Arab countries, and no, none of the women were ever required to get written permission from their husbands/closest male relative to travel abroad. You and your source are a joke. GTFO.
I don't think a majority of women (Muslim or not) should be able to tell a small group of women who want to wear a burqa that it's not ok. The fact that these women women in favor of the ban would further suggest that this is to help the women who are no longer able to dress the way they want is insulting.
Why do you seem more concerned about the "right to wear a burqa" in France than about women's rights in Muslim countries, where they are far more restricted than the "restriction" of not being allowed to wear a burqa?
Give it a rest. Again with your attempt to show me negatively when it comes to Jews. I have no problem with a Jew doing it, however given that the article is riddled with so many biased and sometimes erroneous assertions, it amuses me that you assumed that it's true without checking against anyone or anything else.
Stay on topic. I don't care about the Arab Muslim world. We are talking about France. If you want to make a point, stop resorting to things that have nothing to do with the subject. Even if Islam is inherently evil, it is no excuse to take away a woman's right to cover her face in France. Unless you are hinting that this law is somehow retaliatory?
So what exactly do you dispute from that article? Do you feel that women's rights in the Muslim world are where they should be? You seem far more agitated about the French burqa ban than about significantly more egregious violations of women's rights happening in the Muslim world.
It is exactly the same topic. Women's rights are violated all the time in the Arab Muslim world. Where are the threads started by leftists and Muslims complaining about that? Where are they? Oh, but these same people can't stop whining when the exact symbol of said oppression, that the same people who oppress women in the Arab/Muslim world try to establish in Western countries, gets banned. If you really were about women's rights, you would focus on the more egregious violations of women's rights - they happen in Arab/Muslim countries, not in France. Yet, you point fingers at France. It's not about women's rights for you guys. It's about spreading Islam and its symbols. And the leftists are on the same page. They turn a blind eye to oppression of women in the muslim world, but they cry foul when women can't wear a burqa in France, boo-freakin-hoo.
1) The law doesn't apply only to the majority of muslim women. It applies to everyone who wants to wear a burqa. 2) The law is supposedly there to protect freedom, even if 100% of the country were for it, I would be against it. Their opinion is irrelevant. If those 49% are so intent on not wearing it, here's a novel idea: stop wearing it or report your husband. I'm sick of these excuses in the Muslim world. "OH IM FORCED IM FORCED BY MY HUSBAND". If it were Saudi Arabia and the woman couldn't even leave the country, I'd be sympathetic. But if you're sitting in France, you can walk out on your husband. If your family disowns you, so be it, so you decide what's important. Once again, think about this. If there is a guy forcing a woman to wear it, what do you think will happen now? 1) They leave France and the women loses more (Sarkozy and ATW rejoice) 2) They are forced to stay home, the woman loses more Do you really think there's a wife-beating burqa-enforcing husband out there going "Ok, since it's in the law, then you don't have to wear it. I will continue to beat you in direct defiance of the law though." How are you able to sleep without a guilty conscience knowing you have split these women in half, one half now facing an even worse life now, and another half facing a law banning them from covering their face. Please answer this question: in your opinion, who will benefit from this law and how?
