You ignore the very concept of religion. People of faith will often adhere to behaviors they may not like (burkas, no meat on Friday, etc). They do so not from force, but because they have faith. They believe that their faith requires this and it is important enough to them to adhere to it. Yet you are for France outlawing this choice.
Did I miss something? When did the United States annex France? Do they need to follow our Constitution? Rightly or wrongly, the French have already banned overt religion symbols like the Jewish skull caps and Christian crosses. This is merely a continuation of their policy. Besides, burkas make a perfect cover for terrorists.
I changed m mind on France.....but yes, I think all those things that people adhere too as a show of faith is silly..... At least IMO. DD
The French have always insisted on going their own way. While I think the burka is used to promote the idea of a woman being subservient to a man, something I personally find abhorrent, that promoting it as an expression of faith in their religion is awfully damned convenient for the men keeping them on a lower level than they see themselves, and that as a non-religious feminist the idea of a faith that promotes unequal rights between the sexes is something I could never support, I also think religious freedom trumps that. The women of France are free to wear a burka, or not. They shouldn't have a choice forced upon them. Like other choices for women that I believe in, the choice should be left to the woman, not a government. In my opinion.
Are women really such weaklings? Because if they are so easily bullied and bossed around in a free society like France then perhaps they are the inferior sex. I would think the perpetuation of this stereotype of women is as offensive to true feminists as an Afghan woman being required to walk two steps behind her husband at all times.
Couldn't have said it better myself. You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Deckard again.
Alright you baited someone in with this wondrous rationale of empowerment....Taking what you said serious, in the extreme sense these women from birth are basically locked up inside their domestic birdcage. Brainwashed to function only in that house-arrest environment. Sad thing is with some of these women, even if they didnt wear burkas they'd still have to un-learn everything they know and might struggle to adapt in a free environment. Feministic liberation through sheer rugged determination has little to do with it.
Some notes from a Muslim: - Burka doesn't cover from head to toe. It only covers the face. - Islam does not require women to wear a burka (not even debateable). - I respect everyw woman's choice to wear a burka whether it's to please God, her parents, her husband or her family. As long as it's her choice. - France shouldn't ban it. Sarkozy has shown that he's willing to kill part of another culture which is not harmful to anyone else. - On ID's, I think it's perfectly ok to ban it. Duh. Whats the point of the picture if it's covered. But for the Muslims in France, they have accepted the challenge of living in France. They can do whatever is in their legal power to change it, but they must accept the circumstances (no matter how unfair they see it) they're in as a result of choosing to live in France. But over and above all, this is a very disgusting position for Sarkozy to take and is one extra step towards alienating oppressed women in dictatorships from the concept of secularization/democracy.
1. we already covered the US Constitution part. i was talking to a US citizen, and assumed that he'd be for those same liberties being extended elsewhere. 2. the French have banned religious symbols in public schools, govt. jobs, etc....not an outright ban. this seeks to be an outright ban. this is not a continuation, but a radical extension of that policy.
Sorry but this is simply not true anymore. I am against women wearing Burka but I know that it does not hinder their ability to be a productive part of society. I'm in Dubai right now and let me tell you I went to an art exhibition the other day and there were several women there wearing a Burka, discussing their work, their ambitions, socializing, etc.. It is a cultural thing. These people watch the same TV, news, movies, everything as you and have pretty much the same interests. I don't expect everyone to know this but spend some time in the Middle East and you''ll realize that the "birdcage"mentality is a thing of the past.
I'm coming late to this thread. While I don't agree with this law France is its own country and its up to them to decide what sort of society they are. If I could give the French some advice though they should be aware that a sure way to destabilize their secular society is to strongly enforce secularism in law. Cracking down on things like dress will only end up antagonizing and radicalizing the religious. Rather than winning them over to the advantages of a secular society just makes them more defensive about their religious society.
I wonder would the reaction be the same if France outlawed the tilaka or tilak? [This is the 'Red Dot' that Hindi individuals wear on their forehead etc] Rocket River
The French government has bigger problems with woman, they need to Outlaw 2 important things. 1. Leg hair 2. Arm pit hair That would help fix their entire country. GET R DONE FROGS ! DD
I'm disappointed as a Frenchman, but then I don't expect much from Sarkozy. I think it's more political ploy than anything. He gets this strange mixed effect of seeming pro-woman to appeal to the center and xenophobic to appeal to the right.
