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French Parliament to Consider Burka Ban

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by DFWRocket, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. DFWRocket

    DFWRocket Member

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    http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/06/23/france.burkas/index.html

    PARIS, France (CNN) -- The French National Assembly announced Tuesday the creation of a inquiry into whether women in France should be allowed to wear the burka, one day after President Nicolas Sarkozy controversially told lawmakers that the traditional Muslim garment was "not welcome" in France.

    A cross-party panel of 32 lawmakers will investigate whether the traditional Muslim garment poses a threat to the secular nature of the French constitution, Agence France-Presse reported. They are due to report back with their recommendations in six months.

    Last week 57 lawmakers -- led by communist legislator Andre Gerin -- signed a petition calling for a study into the feasibility of legislation to ban the burka in public places.

    On Monday Sarkozy declared in a keynote parliamentary address that the burka, which covers women from head to toe, is "not welcome" in France.

    "The problem of the burka is not a religious problem. This is an issue of a woman's freedom and dignity. This is not a religious symbol. It is a sign of subservience; it is a sign of lowering. I want to say solemnly, the burka is not welcome in France," Sarkozy told lawmakers.

    The right of Muslim women to cover themselves is fiercely debated in France, which has a large Muslim minority but also a staunchly secular constitution. Should Muslim women in France be banned from wearing the burka? Sound Off below

    In 2004, the French parliament passed legislation banning Muslim girls from wearing headscarves in state schools, prompting widespread Muslim protests. The law also banned other conspicuous religious symbols including Sikh turbans, large Christian crucifixes and Jewish skull caps.

    Last year, France's top court denied a Moroccan woman's naturalization request on the grounds that she wore a burka.

    Some lawmakers have called for burkas to be banned completely, claiming they are degrading to women. They also include housing minister Fadela Amara, a Muslim-born women's rights campaigner, who has called the garment "a kind of tomb for women."

    "We cannot accept in our country women trapped behind a fence, cut off from social life, deprived of any identity. This is not the idea that we have of a woman's dignity," Sarkozy said Monday.

    But French Muslim leaders say that only a small minority of women wear the full veil and had previously criticized calls for the issue to be the subject of a parliamentary inquiry.

    "To raise the subject like this, via a parliamentary committee, is a way of stigmatizing Islam and the Muslims of France," Mohammed Moussaoui, the head of the French Council for the Muslim Religion, told AFP last week.

    "We are shocked by the idea parliament should be put to work on such a marginal issue."

    France is not the only European Union country to have considered banning the burka. Dutch lawmakers voted in favor of a ban in 2005, although the government of the time was defeated in elections before it could pass legislation to outlaw the garment






    Wow, did it ever occur to the French that some women may actually Want to wear the Burka due to their religious beliefs? If you ban the burka, some women may never be able to leave their homes again.
     
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Good for France....their country, their rules.

    DD
     
  3. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    You just completely undermined the United States Constitution.
     
  4. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    ?

    What if they wanted to pass a law that said you can't be Muslim at all and live in their country? Good for France?
     
  5. Major

    Major Member

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    What happened to:


    That is completely their choice.....I just hope that religious government allows the minority to decide to worship or not, or to respect all people's decisions.
     
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    I agree with this, and the French are not saying "Don't worship" they are saying......the Burka is not welcome.....

    The Burka is not a religious symbol, it is a cultural one......of subservience....

    This is the French constitution, and BTW, I believe we outlawed the head covereing of the Burka on drivers licenses as well....

    DD
     
  7. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    Only because it made identification cards worthless. I'm all for that.

    But commenting on what's behind the burka and eliminating them entirely??? Please. Yes, I'm aware this isn't the US...but the concept you're arguing for flies smack in the face of basic concepts of liberty.

    If this weren't an issue touching on religion (and Islam in particular) I can't believe you'd be for government involvement in what people wear!
     
  8. SWTsig

    SWTsig Contributing Member

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    dada, your belief system is all over the place.
     
  9. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    berets, you're next.
     
  10. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Islam does not require a Burka, it is completely cultural.......and if the French are saying they don't want it in their society, because of it's subservient nature...good for them.

    DD
     
  11. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    it's very consistent with respect to religion and Islam in particular.
     
  12. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

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    Well-meaning liberals trying to take a stand for women's rights. The only problem is they're completely trampling on a group's religious beliefs to do it. I wonder if this will eventually lead to a new round of riots.

    France comes off as extremely hypocritical to me.
     
  13. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Yes it is.......but I challenge you to show me where the Burka is required in Islam......

    It isn't...it is 100% cultural.

    DD
     
  14. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    what are you a muslim cleric??? because there are tons of muslims who believe a burka is part of dressing in moderation, which is talked about in the Koran.

    this is the majority telling the minority what to wear. it is a particular group of people being singled out who share a value stemming from a faith tradition.

    you've taken your position, so it's worthless to discuss it, i know. but i can't believe anyone who champions individual liberties, freedoms and the dignity of human beings to make decisions for themselves which do not hurt other people...would be celebrating this.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. SWTsig

    SWTsig Contributing Member

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    true.
     
  16. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    There are all different flavors of what's required in Islam. It is a religion of laws and more laws...all open to interpretation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_clothing

    “ And say that the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms ... ”
    — Qur'an [24:31]

    “ O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them. That will be better, so that they may be recognized and not harassed. Allah (SWT) is ever Forgiving, Merciful. ”
    — Qur'an [33:59]

    However, there are many different interpretations of what "modesty" requires. Most agree[1] that it is covering the "awrah", from the belly button to the knees for men and from the head to the toes for women except the face and hands.
     
  17. Major

    Major Member

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    So would you be for the US, for example, banning crosses? After all, that's not required in Christianity either.

    Or how about jeans? It's just a cultural thing.
     
  18. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.

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    Mixed feelings on this one.

    At the end of the day though, if someone wants to be oppressed or subservient, either by religion or cultural peer pressure, then that is their choice...
     
  19. thegary

    thegary Contributing Member

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    i'm gonna have to stick up for dakota here. the burka is a symbol of extremism and i am glad that the french peacock has the balls to call it out.
     
  20. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    I do think individual liberties are the most important thing, and I believe wearing the Burka is trampling on a lot of those liberties.

    So many woman are being forced to wear it by their community, I don't really have the answers but I would like them to have a choice....wouldn't you.

    I guess if you are saying that the French government might be taking away that choice, I could see that point......however the converse side of that is that so many woman are forced to wear it....and they should choose for themselves.

    Not sure if there is a clear answer I guess.

    DD
     

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