Freedom of religion for non-Muslims in Islamic countries

I love the Agha Khan! If you ever see him in person, do thank him for me for having his foundation build that fantastic multi-million dollar Al-Azhar Garden in the midst of Cairo. It is a beautiful and an attractive place to hang out, and has magnificent views of the city (the old Cairo on one part overlooking the citadel, and the more modern Cairo viewed from the other side). Highly recommend it for anyone visiting Cairo :grin:

 

Awesome, I hope to check it out too, he recently announced the building of a multi million religious center, park, and museum in Toronto as well. Yea the foundation AKDN has some truly special noteworthy things all around the world and is nondenominational as well

 

I ask this with the utmost respect, but do you have an idea about what the Ismaili view is regarding his lifestyle?

 

I think if you read a bit of one of my previous links then you'll get an idea of some of the lifestyle which is more portrayed in a negative manner and not accurate however. He speaks of his involvement in horse racing, I guess the perception is its just this richman's past time indulgence of gambling, but rather it is something he did to honor is his father since it had been in his family for several generations and his father(who had the image of a playboy which gave his son worse publicity) died young in a car crash so he felt it important to carry something on that he loved. Yes there are his marriages, but his personal life is his is personal life in my opinion and what he does even in his personal life outside of that is simply amazing in terms of his dedication and work ethic towards improving lives of the less fortunate regardless of religion, race, or anything. And also his articulation capability and representation of islam as a whole to the west. He has made deals with many of the state governemnts acorss the world and here in the states to include more of islamic history to help bridge the misunderstanding of what islam really is. Also there is a misunderstanding often to what his role is to the ismailis which he speaks of in the interview as well, he is considered a interpreter of the quran and current guidance but most of the ismailis i've spoken to its not that they worship him, they very much have a foundational muslim and study the works of muhammad and so on.

 

Agree with him on all the positions. Mathloom posted an explanation a while back on the concept of tawhid (oneness) and its various implications in current issues which I and many others believe in, and which the above positions are compatible with.

Interesting how you respect the Aga Khan and decided to read up on him a bit to see what he was about rather than relying on what some extremist/"orthodox" Muslim website described him as. I think if you researched a bit more on Muhammad using a similar attitude and sources of information, you would also choose not to do any cartoons like you would for the Aga Khan "out of respect for him". Muhammad for Muslims is the new-found deference you have for this man multiplied several orders of magnitude higher.

 

yea, Aga Khan's words are inspired by Muhammad and the Quran, he majored in Islam at Harvard and Ismailis are of course Muslims and thus Muhammad and the Quran are the foundation of all Muslims. Of course Jesus and Abraham, etc are very much apart of the religion as well. You can see Aga Khan simply use intellect that is encouraged in the Quran itself and see the beauty in the religion as he says of peace.

Once again there are many other factors that lead to the current state. And as others have said they are not religion related although they liked to be called Islamic states, there are cultural, economical, and historic issues that have led to the current state of things in some of these areas. We have seen since way back when times during muslim rule of flourishing, tolerance, and education, so we can not say that we are simply behind and have not caught up, Muslims were very much progressive at a time and those times could even be more advanced than the current state in some of these countries unfortunately.

So the problem is not the religion as they like to connect it, but other issues.
And those issues and extremists, not just in Islam, but of all kinds and places only negatively impact the world and their communities and need to be dealt with. Yet you can not let them win, although they get the most news coverage, but when one says that this is what Islam is, that they are what Islam is, you give them power, you give them a voice, you justify their actions into achieving the attention that they want to seek. That is what we need to fight so they are winning in that these extremists who just like the other extremist of other communities only represent such a small percentage less than one percent of the community, yet they have become the most famous and representing ones of the religion it seems to the western cultures, and we shouldn't let that happen.

To see on cnn the other day how they had a rally to stop building the mosque and community center near ground zero because it was a 'house of evil' and 'disrespectful to the souls who died in 9/11'. The lady on their flat out said incorrect facts about all mosques according to her studies preaching violence and so on, like literally blatantly telling falsities as facts on national television where many people get most of their information and the less informed will take it as a fact. We must understand that this center would be an exact answer and fight the extremist who carried out those attacks to not let them win in their message. There were muslims who died in that attack and they were Americans working in that building as well and we mourn them with all the other American lives lost at the hand of those extremist, and we musn't let them think they had success. This center which is intended to be an interfaith center and help fight these perceptions and to educate to build bridges in my opinion is a progressive step for tolerance, understanding, and education some of the beauties and great things about our country of freedom. It was unfortunate and frustrating to see some of the reasoning at the rallies.

I was very encouraged to see AroundtheWorld's response and I hope he continues to learn and explore to understand Islam. Although he might not agree with everything surely, hopefully he can come to understand it better and respect the differences. Simply, I have read through some of his post and I don't agree with everything, but I must pay respects for his ability to research, communicate, and articulate his point and would love to have him on my side to be honest. So hopefully along with other members of this board, the community, country, and world we begin to start understanding one another better and respecting differences and finding our common ground.

 

heres a new thread with a houston radio host talking of bombing that center if it is built, exact sort of misinformed ignorance that I was talking about. Maybe my views and hopes seem idealistic and perhaps even unattainable entirely. But as one of the great Americans Benjamin Franklin said, chase perfection and even if it can't be attained, in that you will reach the highest of heights. So hopefully we can reach one or two or however many on here and it will diffuse and people will understand each other better and the ignorance is on both sides of the world and we need to work to meet to understand both sides as well.

Also another point, Muslims, would it be incorrect when speaking in English to refer to God as Allah. Perhaps incorrect is not the word, but it is seeming to me in the media that Allah is some sort of other god, but the fact is the 3 Abrahamic faiths stem from the same deity. Allah is merely the Arabic word for God and I think it only creates more of a seperation at times and is used inappropriately, thoughts?

 

Allah just means The God in Arabic.

It comes from the same root as "Elohim" which is used in Judaic and Christian texts.

In fact, before Islam existed, many people have stated that it is highly highly likely that the word Allah was in use to refer to their Gods.

Christians in Palestine, Lebanon and Jordan also use Allah.

It's just a word. Shouldn't be offensive or sensitive at all for you to not use it. I agree with you that it's used for seperation. I don't think that it's used intentionally in an inappropriate way or to segregate, it has just become a habit. Extremist scholars are probably responsible for enforcing the habit for negative purposes.

 

That's interesting. He seems to be doing great things in places that need it, it's very encouraging.

At the same time, his lifestyle is confusing to me. If Aga Khan has some inherited ability to interpret the Quran, it would seem to me that he would be trying to emulate the Prophet's lifestyle in a modern setting, rather than re-living his grandfather's lifestyle for the memory to live on.

Also, I don't believe any one person is better at interpreting the Quran due to their lineage or race or anything like that. It just seems unlikely to me personally and my view of the Quran is that it doesn't support such a thing.

Overall though, I don't mean to harp on the negatives since his work is certainly a fantastic example for Muslims to follow. I'm actually thinking about whether there's any way I can help his network in the Middle East if possible.

Thanks for the information, highly appreciated.

 

I completely understand and respect your point of view on it as well. We all look at it differently and there are many other interpretations and ways to look at Islam as there are with other religions. So respectfully, I say to each his own and I try to respect each and every side even when I have a different viewpoint as well.
Yea the website to go through would be AKDN.org, I've done some work there too and its incredible, fulfilling,powerful work and a unique way to reach people in need and there are a diverse group of ways to do so. There is the tourisim promotion department with hotels, there is microfinance, so many different ways to get involved, check it out.

 

It should be noted that Elohim is actually a reference to "gods" (plural). El is singular.

 

Actually, I think his lifestyle is misunderstood, him having different wives, that is not necessarily forbidden in the quran and also the prophet himself had more than one, but then again from an interpretation that was in the context of that time since there were orphans from war and the quran said to take more than one wife so that you can adopt more of these parentless kids and help raise them. I've seen people throw out the line where it says you can have more than one wife at my face, and people don't look at the context or the historical reasoning at the time which is very much a apart of it.
I do think he lives an exemplary life in my personal opinion with his agenda and dedication, I've read interviews which talk about how he never has interest or drinks alcohol or smokes even and the horse racing isn't so much about the money as he is assured to be taken care of for a while but not just since his grand father but generations of imam's before him kept heard of horses and so he kept this tradition even though he stated the difficulty of managing these operations since his main priority is the network and the community, but it was important to his family so he kept on doing so. So i think a lot of the media just gives an interesting viewpoint that can't be taken at face value as we so often see for quite a range of topics today. His grandfather who was the previous leader led a very exemplary life as well who seved as President of the league of nations as well. A lot of history and i thik Ismaili or not, just like you said, I just commend and appreciate the focus on intellect and giving and building communities regardless of who they are and that message and representation of Islam

 

That's interesting. There must be more to this than it appears though?

Judaism is monotheistic as far as I know?

 

In the same way he has been able to abstain from alcohol and smoke, I hope he is able to distance himself from what may be an overly lavish lifestyle.

None of us know him and so we can't judge him, and God knows best. I don't think he's under some particular responsibility to stay away from these things than we are, but I guess I'm under the impression that given his ability to re-interpret the Quran, it would be best to stay on the safe side.

Enough about this, I'm not that interested in it. I'd rather focus on the good things he does and hope to spread the word and have people do similar things.

 

It is now. Much of the Torah is filled with polytheistic attritbutes, likely "borrowed" from pre-ugaritic cultures. For example, Asherah is often referred to as the "consort" of Yahweh, and even now a large aspect of Kabbalah is concerned with discovering the lost "feminine" aspect of god, Shekhina.

 

as I understand it...to the Jews these were "aspects" of God...of one God. not multi Gods. more of a trinitarian concept.

 

Christians often associate Shekinah with the Holy Spirit. Regardless, you are right - however my point was that the origins are not as clearly monotheistic as typically and traditionally understood. In fact, it's the opposite - it took centuries to stomp out the other gods and goddesses of the jewish pantheon.

 

there were also squadrons of UFO's.

 

ATW:

In the interest of bandwidth, might I suggest that you start a thread called "Muslims drive me bat***** crazy" and post all of your various anti-Muslim rants and articles therein?

TIA.