I think the proper analogy he should be making is when the Natives can get out of refugees and Casinos reclaim the once stolen land, China will return Tibet to Tibetans .... or something along those lines. Personally, I'm a realist and I say that ship has sailed. China's big and strong enough now that no one outside of finger pointing is going to do a damn thing about Tibet. Unless we see a Soviet Unionish collapse in China (which will not happen because as you can tell by the posts, nationalism is high. Life is getting better, and most anger and angst will be geared towards Japan then Taiwan first anyways before turning internal). Also given the recent invasion of Iraq, and just the overall bad tastes left over from the sphefe of influence days (I have living realitives that witness that first hand, so it's not that long ago), Western nation's damnation would not be taken well by the Han majority in China and will be seeing more of the same "white man coming up with something else to keep us down now that we finally are getting the life to be a little better". It will be hard to convince an average Chinese that supports the government's action in Tibet they're being significantly worse morally than everything else that goes on in the world. It will not invoke guilt or anything else that drive change. I think that its a given Tibet will not likely be "freed" in our lifetime, and probably lifetimes after it, we need to see it as a reality and explore all options to resolve this situation in the most effecient and peaceful manner. All other views would idealistic.
Just like the Southern slave states want their own country. The Union want to hold on to Southern slave states during American Civil War. P.S. Yes. I do not support slavery in any sense.
Really? What about Hawaii? Let's make sure the natives become the minority and then have a vote. Isn't that what the US and Dalai claim China is doing, conveniently ignoring that Tibetans account for 90%+ of the population of TAR? If there is nothing wrong with it in Texas and Hawaii, there certainly shouldn't be much wrong with it not happening in China. Not that we should limit ourselves to successful invasions. They also tried and failed to invade Canada. That integration, if happened, would have more legitimacy wouldn't it. It's much harder to tell Canadians from Injuns, Mexicans and Hawaiians.
More power to them. If they can get a significant movement of native Hawaiians who want independence, go for it. I will be glad for them. My understanding of the Hawaiian independence situation is that it is not a very large movement. Same is true for the Puerto Ricans, though they actually have a significant movement which wants independence. I think they should be given every opportunity to get it if that's what the Puerto Ricans want. I think the most recent polls indicate it is still a minority, but if they achieve a majority, more power to them. In that case I support the Republic of Puerto Rico.
I think you should read the articles on the website a bit more carefully. From 1993 onwards (maybe prior to that to, I'm not sure), the movement gathered 50,000+ petitions demanding greater AUTONOMY, not outright independence. The movement was blocked by congress and kept from American public eyes. Not that I am going to give credence to such claims... But one thing I don't think many Chinese posters would have a problem is claiming to "support Tibet independence" when taking away the means to do so.
How would you judge? Take a poll? In any case, I hardly think it matters. If you want the spin, it's the "Chinese government" that doesn't want Tibet to separate.
Well, if there are massive native Hawaiian riots on the street of Honolulu, then I'm thinking that that is a pretty good indication that something is wrong somewhere. If that happened, a referendum would probably be a decent way to get a picture.
Native Hawaii's and other Pacific Islanders now combine for less than 10% of the population. I would say it's kinda hard to start massive riots with that amount. But why stop there? When only free the Hawaiians when you can free all Native Americans? When will you pack your bags and head back to, Germany is it? When is the clandestine day?
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So are you saying that more than 10% of the population is part of the evil secretive and small 'Dali clique' in Tibet that the CPC is talking about? Or are you admiting that the CPC line about an evil foreigner plot is 'ge pi'. In any case, you could very easily start a riot with 10% of the population. My wife is 1/4 Cherokee. I wouldn't have to go anywhere, except maybe for a move to Atlanta, if you want to parcel up the country into individual tribal areas. If things stay the same, in 100 years once all the native Tibetans are gone or speaking Chinese, then it is silly to try to give back land to someone you've already eradicated. Without a claimant, there is no claim. So if you are happy to destroy Tibetans, once that is done you can keep your Tibet for China without any legitimate reason to get rid of it. Or, if you have some foresight, you can try to avoid the mistakes that others have made. And are you sure you really mean clandestine day? That makes absolutely no sense at all. Why would this mass exodus occur on a secretive or concealed day?
Really? Tibetans aren't starting much of a riot in Chengdu, where they are the far far minority. Those that did were arrested quickly. The same situation would be true in Hawaii, where a violent uprising/riot would be put down very quickly. You know, in 50 years, the CCP hasn't done a very good job to have the Tibetans speak Chinese, if that was their intention. They also haven't done a very good job wiping out the Tibetan population out. No claimants? Diluted maybe. But I think if you look hard enough, you'd be able to find Native Americans that would gladly have their land back. Just sayin'. But I doubt that would happen. I meant what I said and it makes perfect sense. I'll take what you said at face value instead of proposing ulterior motives. My hats off to you if you indeed meant to free the Native Americans, Hawaiians, Costa Ricans or whatever their freedom. I doubt that is the case with the majority of Americans. I doubt that they are even aware that you just mortgaged away their land without their knowledge. I think that is quite clandestine.
Functionally, they are part of American culture. The same way the Yi and Manchu are part of Han Culture. I'm sure there are some people who identify themselves as Manchu nationalists. I would hardly call them significant enough to qualify as a real, existant continuing culture seperate from the Han. Since you've already assimilated Manchuria, the clamiants have a nonexistant claim. Nobody is asking for Manchuria for the Manchu. Continental American Indians are to the Americans what the Manchu are to the Chinese. The memory is kept alive by a handful of people.
You know, that's not how I see it. Here is what I see. I see that Manchus had an opportunity to be functionally distinct from ethnic Hans, both during the Qing Dynasty as well as during Republican periods. They voluntarily integrated with ethnic Hans, much like ethnic Hans used to be thousands of states integrating with each other. On the other hand, I don't see a voluntary assimilation of the Native Americans. It was forced upon them. They never had much of a choice.
doesn't matter what you say. i known 4 different families of machu friends in the states. all of them chinese name, don't know manchu. they are super happy and proud to be chinese. one of our regular friends, i didn't even know they were manchus. i was like, that chinese general killed the khan. if he didn't get killed by the corrupted government, manchu never woulda entered. then they were like, hahahaha, we are manchus. in fact, we belong to the "xiang" yellow banner. which is the banner of the "do'er gun" the general that lead the entrance and capital. anways, manchus have fully integrated without much problem. we don't talk about racial issues, we look at each other as one race these days.
