Thanks for your help in this thread man. I understand that you have trouble with some verses. Ill try my best to explain to you what they are saying. Let me make clear that i am not a scholar of islam, nor am I eduated enought to interpret the quran, so i will use the interpretations made by others to explain what i understand. this is the quote/verse you are going for. Basically this verse is saying that the ones who mock your religion, and who are known to be mischevious, dont trust them as they will more than likely stab you in the back. For example the jews(madinates) of the time sold out the secrets of the military plans of the muslims to the makkans, and this helped them in attacking the muslims who were protecting the city of madinah(including the jews). so the verse came down saying dont trust the people who are known to screw you over. The verse you posted 5.54 is this hope that helps here is something i found about this verse so basically this verse is there to protect the rights of innocents. its saying do not kidnap and keep helpless civillians. Only people you have a right over are the people you defeat in battle(those people who fight against you) [Shakir 9:5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. [Yusufali 9:5] But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. [Pickthal 9:5] Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. The command to fight against the perfidious and treacherous group of infidels who persistently violated the treaties and tried to destroy peace and security, was to restore law and order in the society. The command was not general but only refers to particular groups of the Makkan idolaters who were notorious offenders. They used to harass the Muslims whenever they found them helpless and when overpowered prayed for amnesty by making treaties which they used to break before their ink was dried. When war becomes inevitable it must be fought with vigour. It may take the form of slaughter, or capture, or siege or ambush, but even then there is room for repentance and amendment, and if that takes place forgiveness is enjoined for the establishment of peace and harmony. if you read the verse right after this, you will understand what's really going on in the verses this is what i found on these verses Again i thank you for your patience and willingness to understand what islam is about and not just attack us based on what you hear and see. Do you live in houston? if you do i can recommend many many people who you can go and speak with. they can answer any of your questions. Have a nice day.
you're right. it's not. i agree. as for mcveigh...the reason i knee-jerk to that so strongly particularly relates to his last words. remember he recited a poem which basically calls out God...throws the finger at Him...says I'm my own man..that kinda stuff.
I do live in Houston, adeel. I've visited a mosque very near me for Friday prayers and spent some time with the Iman afterwards. He was very gracious, and thanked me for coming. He handed me a bunch of materials on Islam, including a Koran.
they are definately disrespecting islam, muslims and the word of Allah swt Why is binladen soo popular, because he offers the uneducated and the illiterate a motive in life. He rallies the public behind his false claims. He uses one or two events and makes it seem that the whole world is against islam, and muslims, and these illiterates rally behind him because they think that this is indeed the way. heck even the literate people rally behind him because they want a place to fit and an easy way out of everything. they want a reason to take their frustrations out. Dude, its not as easy blaming the group even. There were many Germans in the time of hitler that didnt do anything to stop the persecution of jews. heck they supported the nazi party. but that was because they were being passed around false propoganda, and werent aware of what was really going on. And in the end you cant blame the people who dont know any better.
it's on the west side of town...north side of I-10 between Gessner and the Beltway. can't remember the name.
after the church refused to support him. Osama hates the saudi government, because they kicked him out. I agree with this, but im just trying to show you the similarities. not pick out the differences. there isnt, i was just trying to inform people, and I figured this section is better than the hangout it wouldnt have if NJ woulda acted humane. thats it, im trying to start trouble by spreading peace. maybe you should be giving this lecture to NJ.
But these people who rally behind him ARE Muslims, right? Otherwise why would they care whether the world was against Islam and Muslims? You claim both literate and illiterate Muslims support bin Laden and his like, so why is it a misnomer or other people to think Muslims support terrorism? I don't see anyone saying EVERY Muslim is a terrorist, do you?
You have a valid point. No one ever says Every Muslim is a terrorist, but the general mindset is that MOST muslims hate non muslims. The general thought of the people is that muslims (as a whole) support terrorism. This misconception is all that I am trying to correct. And the whole argument is that The Quran teaches hatred and terrorrism, while this is not true. Infact its quite the opposite. And this is why I wanted some of the people on here to get a hold of a quran for themselves and read whats really in it, and not read one or two verses and misjudge the book.
adeel -- i'm not posting an original idea here...but i think Islam is going through a certain "dark age" that Christianity went through during the Middle Ages. you had a ton of people who could not read and were uneducated being told by the church, which went part and parcel with the government, that Jesus wanted them to spill blood in his name and reclaim what was rightfully theirs. in truth, Jesus says no such thing...quite the opposite...but the illiterate did not know that. it seems that's analogous to what Islam is facing today...is that fair??
I think it is quite fair using this analogy, but one thing is that No government really supports the use of terrorism in the name of islam. Its only vagabound groups.
Fair enough. My point is that reading the Koran will not tell us one way or the other what Muslims actually think or support. As you acknowledge that many Muslims DO support terrorists. So if we are to correct misperceptions maybe we should be talking about what 'most' Muslims believe and how those that do (support terrorists) can be separated from those that don't.
NJRocket - That was a disgraceful post. It goes against what we as Americans belive and are expected to behave. Your hatered shows you are no different than those terrorists you so vehemently oppose. You tried to be funny and a smart@ss but you came out looking like an idiot. *sigh*
That sounds a hell of a lot like Hitler. He preyed on the poor and downtrodden, using the Jews as a scapegoat for the failures of Germany.
I have a Quran already, but I can't manage to read it. I need some sort of companion book to guide me through. If they aren't giving those away free, I could use a recommendation.
Thanks, but I think I need something more -- not more basic, but more general. What's the architecture of the book, what are the parts, what's most important, etc. I just don't have any sort of compass.
Ok, so basically you dont know where to start on reading the quran. Maybe a book on Islam 101 would be better. The Quran itself was not revealed in the order in which it is found nowadays. Parts of it were revealed as the need arose. For example Many drunk people were coming to the mosques and the smell was disturbing the other people, so the verse was revealed that Do not drink and then come to prayer. Then later on another verse was revealed saying do not drink alcohol. A regular person reading this would not understand which way to comprehend this, and that is why sometimes it is better to read something like the biography of mohammad pbuh, http://www.whyislam.org/877/Last_Prophet/Biography_by_Hamidullah.asp or somthing to the effect of the history of islam http://www.whyislam.org/877/Introduction/Historical_Perspective.asp but if you want to read the basic themes of the chapters and the verses in the quran you can go to this site http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/maududi/
A couple of months after September 11, I was in a cab to LaGuardia. The cabbie was from somewhere in the Middle East. We started talking about world events, and when he dropped me off at the airport he gave me a copy of the Quran. I told him to keep it, but he insisted on giving it to me. Once I got into the airport I found the most out of the way trash can and threw away the Quran. No way in hell was I going through airport security with a laptop and a copy of the Quran. Hope I dont go to hell for that.
