FVV’s market is less than 20m. No team with cap space will want him unless it’s to eat his contract and get a pick in return. The tax payer MLE is 14.1m. Maybe a contending team could make some moves to offer more, but if you take a list of the starting pg’s I listed in a couple of other posts there are only 5 or so that are worse than FVV. Why would any contending team want to waste 20-30m on an aging PG that is worse than the one they have in hand? Paying FFV a premium for any other purpose than trading him is financial malfeasance. I hope the Rockets aren’t that stupid, but I fear Ime’s power in the organization will trump any rational thoughts in the rest of the organization.
There is nowhere for FVV to go - only Brooklyn and Detroit have meaningful cap space. This year, most free agents will be re-priced to the mid-level exception, and the Rockets will absolutely use that leverage on FVV.
Boston should have to give up a pick for Holiday. I can’t believe how these old players are being re-circulated at idiotic prices.
How long is his contract? He is way better than FVV, and he might be a nice person to mentor Reed.....until he is ready. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/player/_/id/6316/jrue-holiday 2 year 33m avg commitment. The only downside is he will be 35 in a few days. DD
Don’t get me wrong, I would prefer Holiday to FVV, but we can do better and I definitely wouldn’t give up a FRP for him. Straight up for FVV, yes in a second.
Jrue showed signs of being cooked this season at 34. Next season he will be 35, and that contract involves paying him $37 million at 37 years old. Trading a first round pick for him would be absolute lunacy. Celtics aren't going to get a good asset for him, but they can probably salary dump him to a bad team that wants the veteran mentorship but not going to do a lot better than that. Between this and your Zion comments I'm not convinced you have any idea how the new CBA works and how much it can hamstring a team to have big money wrapped up in players that aren't worth that money. I also think LeBron warped everyone's minds, every season once a player turns 35 is a gamble to drop off a cliff
Stone just needs to be working on a contingency plan. While I am definitely in the group that can’t see why the Rockets should go much higher than low $20s to extend FVV, I’m also not sold on Amen and/or Reed taking over full time. While I’d rather see them get a new PG, I can understand Ime and Stone liking the continuity. But if Fred wants to play hardball, Stone better be working on another deal that lets FVV’s team know they aren’t holding the cards.
You know who said that too? Mark Cuban on Steve Nash........sometimes you just have to take that leap. DD
No one on the team has the handles to replace Fred. We turn over the ball way too much when he's off the floor. The stretch where he was out was rough, I'm not sure if people blocked that out of their brain or something. I think Reed and Amen can develop those handles and I'd love to give them more opportunities to do so this season, but I think if we want to stay a competitive play-off team without a major move then we need FVV back for one more season. I wish we had a bit more breathing room with the tax because personally I'd love to just accept the team option and then after this season, offer a real cheap extension or let him walk. This talk of $30 million a year locked up for multiple years scares me a lot, I hate the idea of having $30-34 million locked up in a 34 year old Fred coming off the bench. But I think we do need Fred for this season, barring a major trade shake-up. Plus, if Reed and/or Amen develop quicker than we expect and are able to take over more duties by mid-season, you get a $44 million expiring at the trade deadline to make a big move then. It's just more flexibility all around, except for the tax part. Maybe you let Jock and Holiday walk to get that breathing room
35mm is basically a 10mm paycut. He’s a 38 minute per game starter who kicked tail in the playoffs and you think he’s getting LESS money. That’s not the way it works my friends.
Clips were supposedly interested and they literally have the last FRP in the draft. I could envision Rox (& Nets) getting in on the deal. LAC: J. Holiday (BOS) + A. Holiday (HOU) ??? BOS: Eubanks (LAC) + Batum (LAC) + #30 (via LAC) + SRP (via HOU) BRK: Bogdanovic (LAC) into TPE + 3 SRPs (2 via HOU + 1 via BOS) HOU: Hauser (BOS)
Turnovers out of the pg position while ignoring the counting statistic of assists is a horrible indication of effectiveness. All of the best PG’s are not great in turnovers. I guess Curry, Harden, Morant, Maxey, etc. etc. are bad point guards because they have above average turnovers. Oh, and FVV is one of the worst starting pg’s at assists. Surprise, surprise. Some folks just don’t understand basketball.
They can't aggregate players. We could absorb Hauser tho into our mle and i have proposed it in the past as it's own deal.
All of the guys you mention have significantly higher usage rates and score significantly more because they are offensive engine type of players, of course they'll have more turnovers. We do not have a player on this squad yet that is the level of offensive engine that any of those guys you mention are, so instead we need a stabilizing force like FVV. Again, we had a stretch with FVV out and went 2-7. That wasn't a coincidence! You "understanding" basketball seems to stop solely at looking at on paper stats in a complete vacuum and not translate to actual end results or watching games. Stats aren't everything on a player and looking at them purely in a vacuum doesn't mean you understand the game better.
Personal relationships matter to Stone, unlike Morey, and I value that too. But 30 million or even more for FVV is ridiculous.
We went 5-7 when FVV was out and Sengun and Jabari missed games in that stretch. I hate when people spew BS to make their points. I am not at all a stats guy, in fact, I’m often accused of being an “eye test” only guy. Just look at the list of starting PG’s in the league and name me 6 that are worse than FVV. Nobody has responded to that challenge, because they can’t. Stabilizing is the last thing we need on this team. We need to be a fast, kaotic team because we have one of the most athletic teams in the league. We should build on that not slow ineffective offensive players like FVV and Dillon. People have been complaining that we don’t have a superstar so we can’t win. We finally have one and play him out of position to be careful about turnovers. Ridiculous.
I fully expect Amen to grow - possibly into an all-NBA talent - but I can foresee various versions of the future where that growth doesn't include being the guy who runs the offense. Same for Reed (minus the all-NBA talent potential). I don't think either or even both of these scenarios would kill our championship chances unless we're starting an older, slower Fred or worse, some other vet minimum guy. Rather than extend both Jabari and Tari, my preferred direction would be to re-sign just one of them (I've made it clear in other threads that I'd keep Tari but that's another discussion) and then use the other as trade bait to get ourselves a better PG. Alternately, we could use the #10 to get the best PG we can in this draft. Either way, we need to have an option behind Fred. Otherwise, if he's still a 40 mpg starter and there's no successor behind him, he'll have all the leverage to either get a final big contract from us (because what other option will we have) or to walk to elsewhere for the same amount that we want to pay him but with a lighter work load.
