man, shouldn't have left this forum after making that post. my comment was simply directed at criticisms of steve and cuttino that don't take into account the weaknesses of ming when discussing his usage. if you're problem is with the coaching and the schemes we used to involve ming, then you're problem is not with my post. fred said they play like a video, i.e. more piling on steve and cuttino while ignoring yao's weaknesses, i pointed them out. y'all responded with rudy's weaknesses and then tried to say i was somehow stupid as follows: again, talk to the coaches, not steve and cuttino (who both reduced their fga throughout the season to the point cuttino was averaging 11.5 for the last month or so, which is small for the guy who is the 2nd best offensive player on the team). could they have passed more, sure. could ming have been able to do his things (meaning get position, back down) better within the context of the offense, yes. but if you're problem is if we could have used other things to get him open, then don't blame steve and cuttino for not using him beter since they aren't the coach. is this the part where i now say you don't undertand bball b/c you disagree with me? and Oski, LMAO at that post.
Actually, the Rockets did exactly this. One of their pet plays would be to have EG and Yao set a double high pick and have one role to the basket (usually Yao). There were two consistant problems though: 1) When Yao rolled, he had problems keeping his man behind him, thus making it more difficult for SF or Cat to get him to ball or 2) Alot of times, Cat or Steve would flat out miss Yao the times he was open on the roll.
steve and cat missed him on pnr's where the pick was set for them, as SC loved to point out (side rant- why when SC made fun of yao early on (even to the point of only showing his embarrassing moments in good performances) were they idiots, but as soon as they did the same to steve and cat (they play great but miss yao 2 or 3 times the whole game), all of a sudden they're spot on? never figured that one out). however, based on the way the play was run it seemed their responsibility was always to hit EG at the top of the arc to then make the entry pass into yao in the lane. a side angle wouldn't really work the way the play was designed unless the strong side was cleared out (which it usually wasn't).
I am 22 and I am sick of selfish me first street ball play. Maybe Rudy was part of the problem maybe not. But absolutly Cat and Stieve are not doing it right. To go "inside out" you have to pass first inside. I think this was missed by the guards. They seem to think that pretending to go inside is going inside. Its not like Rudy doesn't know how to run an offense like that. Hakeem was the focus for years. As yoa should be now. its not about who is the best but who can change the defense of the other team the most. Other teams HAVE to respect yao when he is down low. So lets make sure we actauly use him down low to open up the rest of the game for everyone else. This has been said a thousand times over and over again. I wonder if people even understand the fact that basketball is a TEAM sport.
F4P, Not sure if the responses in the quote box are from you are not. I am assuming they are. I would very much disagree that the double high pick was just a pet play and only used twice a game. Strongly disagree. The double high pick was one of our most common sets (if not the most common). It was used numerous times throught a given game. As far as EG being used as the entry passer, I would agree that this happened often (off of said play), but do not agree that was always the intent (i.e. the set is designed to have options and is almost specifically designed for the purposes of getting the ball to Yao either by EG popping out off the pick and deliver the ball into Yao or by Yao rolling free and clear to the basket and receiving the pass from the point). The problem I had, is that when Yao's man would pop out to stall SF from penetrating, Yao would roll to the basket and create enough separation where a lob pass would be effective (how many times did we see Yao with his hand up after the roll, indicating he was in a good position to receive the pass?). So again, the double high pick has two definite options and we over used one (the EG entry pass) and under used the other (hitting Yao on the roll). Francis was more often than not, the one initiating this set. Mobley would usually miss Yao when they were playing a two man (PnR) on the weakside. Yao would roll (wide open alot), but Cat would drive towards the middle and hit alot of traffic (strongside defenders anticipating the Yao roll and clogging the middle). I agree with you about SC. They loved to mock Yao because they were leaning towards the "Yao will be a bust" theory. Once Yao proved himself, they turned their attention toward Steve and Cat.
we must be talking about different sets (or i'm calling the right play the wrong name, but double high pick was always the name used for the play in my mind). yao with his hand up calling for the ball was always off the straight pnr (always run on the right side), where he was missed. the double high pick was always just yao/eg picking to free each other up and yao backing in out of the confusion with no guards involved except to hold the ball before getting it to eg (and always on the left side).
I just checked out two games I had on my TIVO. One, @ Golden State late in the year, and the other @ home against N.J. In both game (I watched the 1st half of each game on fast forward), we ran that set anywhere from 3-6 times a quarter. However, I did notice we rarely ran it without Yao, Griffin and SF in there all at the same time (we hardly ran it at all in the 2nd quarters,usually because thats when Yao, Steve and EG were all sitting). As far as the play itself, I am talking about the player where the point (usually SF) comes across midcourt and EG and YAO set a double pick (facing each other) right at the top of the key/near the top of the 3pt line straight on. This set is never run on the wing. In this set, Yao was often in a pass receiving mode while SF still had the ball (SF would look to Yao on the roll (he wasn't always in a position to receive a pass though) and would either miss him open or if Yao was covered, he would then swing the ball to EG for an entry pass). Look at the replay of those games, this is how it happened almost every time. Also, in this set, SF would, from time to time, dribble to either side and/or try to penetrate (this is the point i made where there were several options off the set, not just setting up EG as the entry passer). We must be talking about different plays, because the double high pick I described is definitely how I have described it based on the 1st halfs of both the GS and NJ games.
well we're definitely talking about different plays if you say they were running it 3-6 times a quarter. i may know what you're describing in which case we're talking about close to the same thing but not the same variation (or something like that) b/c i am positive we didn't run the play in my mind with near that frequency. oh well, good arguing with you over different plays . on a side note, how much can you keep stored on tivo? in austin on our dvr you can hold about 50 hours but me and my roommate record so much crap i could never keep rockets games on there. i need to start recording and keeping rox games for times just like this.
Exactly. That would be great...like Spurs offense...Lakers offense...Kings offense...Mavs offense...Nets' fast break...
I don't want this to get into how many times Francis and Mobley missed Ming type of thing. The basic principle is that the coaching staff made the game harder than what it was. I'm pretty sure if anyone with any sense watch enough tape they can find ways to get a 7'5 300lb man open closer to the basket. The Rockets like running that double high with Griffin and Ming, but the problem was that if the guards actually used the picks, they themselves would come open. Placing variable into that set would heave been nice also. How about a pass to Ming, a rub off by the guards, kick to the wing, then the guard that runs through comes up and sets a back pick for Ming. Mimic is the greatest form of flattery, so if yo have to, go look at how Karl Malone received the ball 3 ft from the basket all those yrs. Malone would start at the left box, Stockton would try to rub his man off the ft line pick after a wing pass. If stockton didn't get the pass on a cut through, he would set a good hard pick for Malone to roll right in front of the basket for either a layup,foul or both. Why we didn't run this at all? Thats the problem. I don't think everyone could be wrong about the Rockets poor use Ming. Ming is the moct skillful big man to come into the league since Duncan in 97. Yes he has flaws like everyone else, but when you're looking at a pivot player,despite not having brute strength, Ming has it. How many fans ,students and former coaches questioned the mix tape basketball the guards was running while Ming was set-up waiting for a simple entry pass. If Francis was reeled in during his 1st season and acutally learned how to play pg, we wouldn't be talking about Rudy being let go or what ever.
Old Man Rock, You must be off your medication. There are numerous ways to screen for a guy getting to the low block, you hardly make any noise when you criticize a post by just saying something rude about the poster. As for knowledge of B-Ball, I think you would fall short. DD
