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Frank Vogel may be available... (UPDATE: Vogel out in Indiana)

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Snow Villiers, May 1, 2016.

  1. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Yes, Feigen linked stories from 2012 when they interviewed him & had interest back then. He's saying they probably also have interest now too.

    Bird story is from today.
     
  2. bulkatron

    bulkatron Member

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    Thanks J.R.!

    What I mean to say is that I am hoping for current news that Houston is chasing Vogel hard. Houston would be smart to chase Vogel.
     
  3. Amel

    Amel Contributing Member

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    IMO, reading into the Bird comments, Vogel will be let go soon

    I have no opinion about him as I really don't know much about the style of play he would bring to the Rockets
     
  4. oakdogg

    oakdogg Contributing Member

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    Yes. He was raised in Jamaica.
     
  5. thedude077

    thedude077 Member

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    The Pacers are dumb if they let him go.
     
  6. rockets13champs

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    Smh i really hope he doesnt choose the knicks.
    Id love to see another knicks situation where vogel betrays the knicks like Kerr and ends up taking rockets to finals
     
  7. ilias

    ilias Member

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    If Vogel is indeed available, getting him to sign is the most important thing the team can achieve over the summer (with the exception of signing Durant). One of the top 7-8 coaches in the NBA. I would be delighted to sign him on a long-term deal. Get it done Maori!
     
  8. KlutchQT

    KlutchQT Contributing Member

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    Would like this. Larry sounds over it (in the isolated quotes, anyway).
     
  9. bulkatron

    bulkatron Member

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    Strange, no? He's the best coach they've had since Carlisle.

    Would love to have him as our coach. Would not have dreamed that he would be available. He's a top 5 coach.
     
  10. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    They let Carlisle go too
     
  11. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    Queens
    Jamaica was the lovely one, I played her well
     
  12. AXG

    AXG Member

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    Yasss!! Do it, Moorie!
     
  13. rockets13champs

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    When do we start our interviews???

    #viewsfromthetoyotacenter
     
  14. Rox>Mavs

    Rox>Mavs Contributing Member

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    Windhorst just said on mike & mike that he's heard Vogel and Bird have a fundamental difference in offensive strategy. Plus Bird didn't actually hire Vogel. He thinks the pacers will let him go. Just FYI....
     
  15. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    And much like Van Gundy will have to "change" [offensively], so will Frank, based on what Bird has said.

    Bird wants to play faster & score more points. Vogel does the opposite.

     
  16. hakeemthagreat

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    So Bird's letting Vogel go because he wants to score more, yet you guys want Vogel here and expect us to score more? Perfect logic
     
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Score more? No.

    Cut down on turnovers and improve defensively? Yes.
     
  18. treyk3

    treyk3 Member

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    No one expects the team to score more under Vogel. If it isn't Mark Jackson thagreat will be there to bash the candidate. The poster may be Stephen A Smith.

    Are you hearing anything new at all? Nothing leaking to the media is quite surprising. I know you seem to have a gauge on the coaching search, but do you know of any feelings of the FO on potential FAs? Is there an overall confidence to land a big piece? Is the possibility of a Durant something they are using to entice the big names like JVG or Vogel?
     
  19. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    There is no doubt the Pacers were offensively "challenged" this year. But if I take a closer look, I'm going to talk myself into really wanting Vogel (see long analysis below!!!) as a coach. I'd be concerned about him offensively, but otherwise he's a really good coach.

    Fortunately the Rockets are at least better offensively than defensively. But they still need a strong figure head driving the boat. Against good defenses, the Rockets struggled offensively as much as the Pacers. Now Harden is unquestionably a better a more complete offensive player than PG, but not miles and miles ahead, and it's not like the Rockets roster is amazing offensively otehrwise. So I'd be very concerned about Vogel offensively.

    BUT... if I'm choosing between Vogel and the other coaches that the Rockets seem to be looking at, I'm choosing Vogel.

    Moreover, style aside, the Pacers roster isn't very good. Myles Turner might have been their second best player. It's somewhat fair to ask if it is the coaching, or the players, especially as you look to a guy like Monta Ellis. But Monta was never an efficient offensive player, and is 30... I think his speed and athleticism has dropped and his efficiency dropped even more, and can you really blame Vogel for trying to slow it down a bit, play solid defense, etc.? At 45-37, and having taken the Raptors to 7 (notwithstanding the Raptors being a horrible playoff team)... well, it's impossible to say anythign other than the Pacers overachieved, in my opinion.

    I can't blame him for saying no to a lot of Paul George as a PF. For one, PG didn't want to do it. For two, PG was coming back from that gruesome injury. For three, according to 82games.com Paul played 27% of the team's total minutes at the PF spot, while playing 42% of their total minutes at the SF spot. Without doing the math, that looks like about 2/3 at SF, 1/3 at PF... which is probably the right amount... especially when you consider the team was -9 in his time at PF, yet +169 in his time at SF.

    Also the Pacers were 11th in pace last year.... just a bit slower than the Rockets (7th in pace). The Rockets got 1 extra possession a game. But for the Pacers to be 3rd in defensive rating while still being 11th in pace, while fielding a roster they have... that's EXTREMELY impressive. I mean none of those guys strike you as fearful defenders or anything.

    And... if I dig deeper, the Pacers actually shot the 3 ball at a similar clip as the Rockets. Slightly better. 35.1% for the Pacers vs. 34.7% for the Rockets. The difference, offensively, is that the Rockets shot WAY more 3 balls (2,533 vs. 1,899). And the Rockets also shot WAY more free throws (2,407 vs. 1,872... they made 241 more, so almost 3 points a game more from the line alone). The Pacers then shot way more 2 pointers, almost 800 more. And at a worse % than the Rockets. And they had less assists than the Rockets.

    For all the b****ing about the "analytic" style... this is an example of how it works. 3's, FT and at the rim. Had the Pacers just done that, I suspect their 25th rated offense would be closer to 15th or so (Rockets were 7th in offensive rating btw), and they probably would have been the 3 seed (Miami won 48 games, the Pacers 45).

    Offensively, I'd love to see someone institute an ACTUAL system, that takes advantage of the things analytics tells you, and gets you great shots at 3, the rim, and even open mid range shots - first and foremost analytics says an open shot is the best shot. I am not sold AT ALL that Vogel can institute that. But if you make the roster better. Certainly if you land a Durant +, and then you add a Frank Vogel as coach, and he is at least on board with the 3/rim/FT style, and hopefully is a decent enough X's and O's coach and enough of a leader to know when to tell the star players to stop iso'ing so much and demand their respect.... well, then I think he's a coach you can definitely win a championship with.

    /analysis ;)

    It's all just so hard to gauge. The Rockets had more turnover, but not that much more. 1307 vs. 1219. So 88 more. about 1 a game. As I mentioned above the Rockets also had more assists. And they had more steals and blocks, too. But the Pacers had more rebounds... and principally more defensive rebounds. Over I think fewer possessions. So I guess the 1 fewer turnover, and doing better on the glass, cuts down on opponent transition opportunities and put-backs enough to make a decent dent defensively.

    On the other hand, with the unbalanced schedule between east and west, it's a bit hard to tell. the west still on the whol had better offense than the east. 8 of the top 12 offensive rating teams, for example.
     
    #99 JayZ750, May 3, 2016
    Last edited: May 3, 2016
    2 people like this.
  20. bulkatron

    bulkatron Member

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    Frank is much more attuned to current NBA offenses than JVG was even when he was coaching. I think he will be just fine. Just like Adelman came in and benefited from JVG's defensive teachings while implementing his offensive systems, I think Vogel can come in and set the tone on defense first as that's where we rank in the bottom 20% of the NBA. We won't be winning a title next year anyway unless we hit a home run in free agency. Getting an associate like Gentry to run the offense would be icing on the cake.
     

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