Wow!!! Can't agree with you there. To me, Mobley is a shorter version of Stackhouse with a quicker first step. Oh, yes...and more heart. Francis is clearly more talented than Mobley. In fact it's my option that Francis would blossum even further if Mobley wasn't on this team. Ooops...., there I said it. It's out! Oh boy, here we go!!! Don't get me wrong. I love Cat. But it is very definitely a love/hate relationship. Perhaps we need counseling. (yeah, I know...just me!!) ------------------
hehe bigman, no that's OK...my statement was cathartic as well. I do like that posing celebrity thing though. The Leader by Divine right who watches Moochie run a better fastbreak and Mobley penetrate with more ease. hehe don't get me wrong either. Stevie has a midrange game from the gods. It is pure sweetness. I just think Francis tries to be more than he is too much, while you say Mobley tries what he is too much. there...that is a good summary.
Francis likely ran the leagues most ISOs for a PG This was by design. You have two amazing one on one players, and given our depleted frontcourt, it would have been stupid not to ISO him consistently. Francis likely ran the leagues most ISOs for a PG. Afterall, he has the leagues worst Ast/TO ratio for PGs. Not meaning to dis Francis, simply putting Mobley ISO criticism into perspective with Francis, which I think is hypocritical when claiming Francis is Mr. Pass1stShoot2nd. Again, if Rudy tried a more passing oriented attack, and Francis didn't have to rebound for our creampuff frontline, his assist numbers would go up, despite the fact he doesn't have natural passing instincts. It's also pretty hypocritical to use that argument considering Mobley, in a double overtime game, managed to not find one open man for an assist. I do think Rudy will find a way to exploit Mobley, but your argument that the "best defender" won't be able to put the clamps on Mobley anymore doesn't make much sense IMO. Who are these tall small forwards who won't be matched up with Mobley now due to the addition of Griffin? I also think teams are going to play a loose, sagging match up zone, so Mobley won't necessarily match up with the weakest defender, because players will be guarding an area, not a player IMO. ------------------ The Smurfs were Communists
Crispee, Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think Francis doesn't assert himself enough, while Mobley needs to reign it in. I am however, excited at the ideas that you and TPL presented about Mobley being used like a 2 should be. I'm sure there will be a few iso's this year and I'm OK with that. But what happens if we actually get Webber? Still think Cat is number one? I'm of the minority in thinking that we might actually get him. But I am also perfectly OK if we don't. Anyways, gotta run. Going to hoop. I might even call upon some of that Mobley Mojo tonight and see how it treats me. ------------------
By the way, Crispee, your posts have an awful familiar sound to em. Kind of like some other poster who lost a bet. Since I was not in on the bet and haven't been reading the threads regarding it, I may have missed who's who now. Are you that familiar poster? FYI, I would have been on the other side had I registered at the time. The draft was too rich in SF's, as it was with big men. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Bigman (edited July 05, 2001).]
bigman, try the Mobley headshake. hehe [This message has been edited by crispee (edited July 05, 2001).]
alright, let me be clear about something, crispee: i am not a "mobley-basher." i think you made an unjustified leap there. i watched alot basketball last year, and one thing i noticed is that MOBLEY LIKES TO SHOOT THE BASKETBALL!!! he does NOT like to PASS the basketball quite as much. there's no way to argue against that. if you've watched the games, that's clear. hopefully, the zone defense will be a positive influence on mobley's development, inspiring him to find the open man (please!!). mobley is an excellent performer when the game is on the line. he is like stackhouse in a positive way - both are very creative in their drives to the hoop. i recognize mobley's strengths. i think the question is: do you recognize his weaknesses? as for any comments about steve running the isolation plays: yes, he had alot of isos CALLED FOR HIM as well. the rockets ran alot of isos as a team last year. too many. my point is that steve would pass the ball when he had nothing. cuttino would not. ------------------
I disagree, Mobley in fact was more prone to pass out of the double team than Francis was. ------------------ I lost a bet.
This was again by design. Mobley was ISO'd on the right side many times not trying to go one on one, but to bait a double team over so he could pass out of the double for quick ball movement and an easy outside shot. Rudy used too much clock in his offensive sets, which in turn reduced the number of opportunities to score and eliminated any chance of offensive rebounding. Hopefully with the new 8 second rule, our guards won't bring the ball up so slowly. ------------------ The Smurfs were Communists
everything was by design And by design this year, Mobley will shoot more because his weakside role will increase more than his strongside role will decrease, while Francis's role should and will remain largely the same. And Stevie, you can't go baseline like Mobley. Stop doing that by design or not. You are better in the middle, especially if you want to be Mr. Pass1stShoot2nd.
Tolpatcsh Verkinder (?!): i stand by what i said. cuttino was more likely to chunk up some terrible shot and then cry foul than steve was. maybe you were watching bizarro cat pass the b-ball last year, but i was watching the REAL cuttino mobley take the shots, open mates be damned!!! once again, i love cuttino. i just wish he would pass the ball. god bless the rule changes. i'm out of here ya'll...g'night. ------------------
Crispee, the number of times you used "no?" in your first post makes me want to cringe, but besides that I agree with what you're saying. ------------------ Mmm Queso.
yeah, yeah. newbie's never get enough touches. you vets hog the ball. cc.net's chemistry sucks for rookies.
I think Francis is the player least likely to be worried about stats on this team. Francis shouldn't relegate himself to a 3rd or 4th option in the offense though, because Griffin won't be ready to get consistent touches, Mobley is sometimes erratic and should be a spot up shooter at times as opposed to a creator, and Mo's offense doesn't come in the flow of the team game. The time he did force his offense were so few and far in between, that I can't even remember a game where he was clearly going out of the offensive system and forcing it. Francis is so gifted offensively, that it would be stupid to try to make him into a prototypical point guard.However, I do see him getting more time at shooting guard next year, with Moochie at the point, to concentrate on his scoring more. As far as the grooming of Griffin goes, I think it's the players' job to get him acclimated with the system/city, and it's Rudy's job to get him to buy into his philosiphy ie: reduced touches, not an immediate major role on the team. ------------------ The Smurfs were Communists [This message has been edited by tacoma park legend (edited July 05, 2001).]
This statement makes no basketball sense. It is like saying we pass the ball around and take turns shooting each time down. Doesn't work that way. A primary ballhandler can have several options to execute on any given play, often equal options (ie, equal threats). The playmaker is always a primary threat to keep the ball, or he sucks. Ranking options as 1st, 2nd, 3rd option each time down is for the mentally slow PGs. The option Francis chooses is the one the defense gives him (ie, leaves open). The more options the playmaker can threaten, the wider the defense will be spread. Francis will be left open more often if concentrates on establishing other threats. This has little to do with Francis being a prototype PG or not. Simplying the sport by calling Francis a primary option or a prototype PG is merely talking extremes like in 101 other trite and nauseating Francis-is-a-New-Age-PG threads (whatever that means). OK. Let's regurgitate the Francis New Age PG debate again.
I would still argue a great PG gets the ball to his teammates where they can be the most effective. I still think our primary offense will involve our guards going 1-on-1 (or at least as much 1-on-1 as the zone allows) and dishing to teammates when the double teams arrive. This should allow some layups for Griffin and whoever else is willing to move to the basket and at the same time create easy jumpers for our shooters (Walt, Bull, Mo-T whoever is on the team). Maybe the zone will screw this up more than I expect, but I am guessing our offense will still run thru Cat & Mobley with just enough touches to keep Mo & Dream (if he resigns) happy. Everyone else (including Griffin) will get their touches from being set up by the guards. I still see Stevie as Isiah Thomas. Someone who can break down a D to create for himself and others, but at the same time letting Dumars & Vinnie have their shots as well.
I am sure Mobley agrees with that statement. btw: don't forget to mention Aguirre and Lame beer. Isiah could break down an offense off the dribble, but he did it less with the more success they had. Witness his 22+ppg seasons early while 18-19 during the championship years.
Stevie is the ultimate team player who doesn't care about stats as long as we win. Everyone is so concerned with there not being enough touches to go around with C-Webb, Stevie, Cat & Eddie. First off, this team is better when Stevie gets his shots in the flow of the offense and in transition. Cat's touches should go down because the iso plays won't be as effective this year. Eddie probably won't reach his potential for a few years. This team needs a number one option in the post. C-Webb will only make this team better. You add C-Webb you get instant matchup problems EVERYWHERE. Count me in as one of the 'pro C-Webb' supporters. ------------------
imo, Mobley's scoring goes up with more threats on the court, and more experience as playmaker. Replacing Shandon with Griffin is a huge benefit to Mobley's offense. Why would it go down if you can't double team him anymore?
