Man Cato shouldn't even be in our starting lineup. And while Cat's a nice player, there are loads of decent SG in the league. Let's not blow this deal over a below average PF and a good but replaceable SG.
Since Steve is as good as TMAC, maybe we could Artest, Harrington, Tinsley and Jermaine O for Steve..oh wait...we can't even get the #2 pick in the draft for Steve. Orlando could get the #2, Ely, Dooling, Jaric AND Magette for TMAC. Is it possible that EVERY GM, owner and player may know a little more about this than the TMAC haters? Steve is IN NO WAY close to TMAC as a player in this league...if you can add a TMAC, you do it. We have some decent talent, lots of scrubs and a future Franchise player on our team. With that team, we backdoored our way into the 8th seed only because Portland choked a little more than we did down the stretch. Now, we MAY be able to add a FRANCHISE player to the mix and we don't want to move Cato? (Pardon me as I vomit profusely!) Steve may one day turn into a TMAC?? (Pardon me as I vomit profusely!) Cat works hard on D (Ok. I'll give ya that...and I don't think we'll HAVE to lose Cat..but we may give him in the deal for reasons I can't yet be sure of but am waiting for info on!) Add the American Franchise player to the Chinese Franchise player and you know what you have? Something that very few others have - 2 franchise players!!!!!!!!! Is this thread for real??
OK, here it is... An even trade Houston’s “Franchise” player for Orlando’s Franchise player!!! Now is every one happy?
It would seem to be very real to me Doc. You spout off a bunch of nonsense that does nothing to help the argument. You did not even look at what we were talking about. What makes McGrady so much better? Tell me, Please Sir. I just don't see it. You say what gm's are willing to give up for each player. Hey they want superstars just like all the posters on this board. Doesn't mean it helps you on the court. Look at Payton and the Lakers, Walker and the Mavs, T-Mac and the Magic, Grant Hill and the Magic, Marbury and the Nets, Pippen and the Rockets, the list goes on and on. Superstars do not translate into titles. I am far from a T-Mac hater. I just don't see where trading 3/5 of your starting lineup for one guy helps your team, especially when one of the 3 matches up pretty favorably with the superstar. Francis is a much worse player just because he doesn't jack up as many shots. Please, I am just not starstruck like most in here including yourself. If you took the time to look at their stats and wiped the stars from your eyes, you might come to a more rational conclusion about trading 3/5 of your team for one guy, especially when we don't have anyone to speak of at 1 of the 2/5 starter spots left.
I have been typing TMAC in all capital letters for a while. He deserves it. steve francis I shall also henceforth use this font for steven, the little dribbler. Now that Moochie has moved on, It's only appropriate that Steve takes on the mantle of that esteemed moniker : SF3 - TLD. Coming soon - comparison thread with Moochie's numbers.
Hmm, maybe you should apply for the GM job since the current ones are only as competent as the posters on this board, who only want hyped superstars, not players who help on the court. And let me suggest you to put a very important credential of yours on your resume: hindsight.
Forget the "hype" for a second....forget the dunks, forget the commercials.... Think about this. T-Mac is CAPABLE of shooting .45% on his own team, at full strength. He's CAPABLE of scoring 30ppg by-himself, with very little help. Opponents concentrate on him. They double him. He can even score over double teams. He's a big time scoring SG period! He's a super star in that respect. Now, think about what he can shoot if he had another star like Yao to share the double team with!!!! Now, compare that with Francis who can shoot .43%, and reach 21ppg. He's a scoring threat. Sure. But he does not command the same type of attention that McGrady does. Even when Francis was leading the show, you could still force him to give up the ball if you doubled. Francis can't score when he's doubled at the same level as McGrady can. Francis, if you gave him 23 shot per game his ppg would increase, true,, but his FG% would drop; because he would be forcings shots that were not there. He's not that great at scoring. He's a good 21ppg type player. But not a 30ppg scorer like McGrady. What would another scoring option do for Francis's FG%? Well, Francis has already had Yao on his team, and yet he still can't shoot better. Francis can't multitask. He can only concentrate on one thing at a time. This is not a good trait for PG. It's very hard for me to convince you...but some players just have better ability to score. They are born that way. They have longer arms, longer legs, stronger, bigger hands and just a better shooting touch. That player is McGrady. No matter how many shots Francis gets he still wouldn't get 30ppg for the year. He's start out hot, but sooner or later he's drop back down to 21ppg. He just doesn't have the physical ability. That's just the way it is. McGrady is 6'8" and long and lean. He can shoot over players. He can palm the ball, and can control the ball much better than Francis. He's also a better passer (much less TO). Now, I do wish that McGrady had over 7 assist per game. But, at least he's doing his job as a SG! And 5.5. assist for a SG is not that bad. Francis on the other hand is shorter at 6'3", small hands, bad court vision and wont be able to physically do the same things that McGrady can. It's just physically impossible to ask him to. Plus, he's a bad passer and he's our PG! I mean, come on! Why do I want my PG to be bad at "PG type skills?" Why? So, when you look at the total package of each player, you'll see why McGrady is just way better. He's in a different league compared to Francis. I don't know why some of you think that just because you take more shots that it's automatically going to mean 30ppg! It's not. You have to HAVE the ABLITY TO SCORE that much in the first place.... ...sigh....let me put it to you another way.... Take Larry Bird. He averaged 24ppg, 10rpg, and get 6.6apg in 1984....now....listen carefully... Bird HAD the ABLITY to score 30ppg if he wanted to! Yes he did! But guess what? He didn't do it all the time if it wasn't good for his team. Because he knew that his best option was to take the best shot that was available. Sometimes that presented itself as a pass, sometimes a jumper, sometimes a layup...it just depended on the situation. He was team-oriented as he was individually-oriented. He knew how to play both ways. In the end, he still had the ability. Kobe has the ability to score 29ppg. But he didn't this year because he had to share the ball more. But he still has the ability. It's a choice. He's done it before (29ppg). Francis does NOT have a choice. At his highest level of play, his best is 21-23ppg. He can't create what is not there. He just doesn't have the same ability that Kobe and Bird have to score. It's just not there. It's very, very hard to score 29ppg and maintain that thoughout the year. That's why those players are considered hot commodities over just good players.
Actually the trade would most likely look like this SF/Cato/Cat for T-Mac/Howard/Lue. So that is 3 starters for 3 starters. Even once again. SF>Lue Cat<T-Mac Cato<Howard
Let’s also consider how much Van Gundy emphasizes the inside-out game. Whether Yao is on the floor or Taylor is on the floor, the ball always goes into the post first every single play. Now which player do you think will excel and be used to their full potential under Van Gundy? The 6’8 shooting guard with a very good post up game, or the 6’3 point guard with absolutely no post up game.
Hell of a point New Jack. That has me thinking about something else. What does this team lack? A good post feeder like Horry. Mcgrady is the man with the all around game, but he can also be used as a long and tall wingman like Robert Horry to drop some precise passes into Yao in the post.
First off, my nonsense is not meant to 'help' this argument. I felt like responding so I did. My personal insight is not meant to do anything other than allow me to wonder at how people can POSSIBLY compare TMAC to steve. If you can't see that TMAC is a better player than Steve well then...I.....I....give up. He's a superstar because HE IS A SUPERSTAR. Steve is NOT a superstar. How could you possibly know that TMAC will not help us? Steve has had 5 years and has done jackcrap! He's NO better than he was 5 years ago. He's older, dumber, and worse than TMAC - there's your argument. I can't imagine how stupid of a basketball game we must play before some people can say "OK., maybe we CAN find better players" Seriously, Steve, Cat, Cato are horrifically stupid players. they simply have great athleticism and ZERO smarts. Have you ever watched TMAC play?....and you can't see his smarts, ability, and dominance? I.....I......can't......I.... Clutch, he called me starstruck....brother, you have no idea. It's so laughable that all you have is stats. There once was this slow whiteguy who couldn't run, jump, move laterally, or even walk straight - he wore #33. Stats?? Seriously?? The argument is over stats?? We're all starstruck?? We're better with Steve, Cat, and Cato over TMAC, Lue, and Howard?? Are you serious? You get 1 guy who's better than Steve AND Cat. You can find a PG anywhere and you pick up a starter at PF and we're worse? Wow...I'm out.
When Yao sits down for a breather, who would you trust the team with: Tmac or Francis? There's your answer right there.
Not trying to get in a pissing match with you here buddy, but you are right I have no idea who you are and I really don't care. No matter how high you make it on the ladder in life, you will always get starstruck every now and then just like everybody else. Yes, very serious. How many did games did T-Mac,Lue, and Howard win in the East last year? And How did they do in the playoffs by the way? What you needed 10 wins in the East to make the playoffs last year? How many games did Steve, Cat, and Cato win in the West where teams with winning records were left out? And What seed were we in the playoffs? And didn't we give the Lakers a real run for their money with Francis carrying the team? Granted it was 4-1, but it could have real easily flip-flopped 2 of those games. The only ones who showed up in that series were Steve and in a couple Cat. Lets get rid of them. We don't want players who come to play when it matters. This I do find very interesting and thank you for passing on the info. As for the rest, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
davidS, Good post and I agree with some of what you say, but he is not 2 extra starters better than Steve. I still think the 2 are alot alike. The only big differrence between the 2 is height. And again, I think he will struggle ala Steve in this offense. He will not be a 30 ppg scorer here. Again, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
One of the things I didn't like about our team was the fact that Francis and Cat shared similar games, i.e. TWO SG on the court at the same time. Neither of them very good passers. I want to keep Cat. But if we can't, then it's not worth it. We need a star to lead this team. It's not about McGrady by himself anymore than it would be Jordan or Kobe by themselves. It's about the McGrady/Yao duo. By the way, I don't want McGrady to average 30ppg here. I want him to average: 26ppg, shoot 46%+ (like Nash, Cassell and Bibby), get 6apg, and 8rpg! Now that doesn't mean that McGrady can't turn it on sometimes and take over. Because he can. That's the great thing about his ability. He can chose to do so if need be. He can bust out a 50 point game once in a while. But most of the time I want him to mix it up (inside and out). Mid-game, post game, and outside, defense. He needs to expand his game. I want him to learn the two-man game with Yao. He can be better than just a great scorer. He can be a great player.
This post is a joke! TMAC 6-8 and Stevie is what 6-3? TMAC kick the crappo out of Stevie in every categories with better STATS and doing it consistently every year. TMAC can score with ease and Stevie have to really fight every night to score. Please stop giving us the stupid HE's playing in the EAST garbage.
