So what about when Steve was putting up numbers without Yao on the Rockets? The putting up numbers argument can go either way, you can say having another superstar on your team helps your numbers because you are not the sole focus or it hurts your numbers because you have to share the ball. I'm not saying I'm against a trade, but you can't dismiss Francis's production.
Steve is not a bad player, but Tmac is a superstar, and plays good defense. The big difference is that T-mac can catch and shoot, and Steve needs to dribble. T-Mac just fits a Yao team better than Steve, that does not mean Steve is bad, just that T-mac fits better. If you would rather have Steve than T-mac more power to you, I would rather have the taller more skilled and YOUNGER player. DD
A scorer on a poor team has fewer people to share the ball usually have high ppg number. But since opponents focus their defense on him, he has low fg%. A scorer on a team with other offensive options might have lower ppg but would have better shooting %. Hence, if a guy shoots well even when he's the only option, you know he's a legit scorer and will do even better on a good team. If a guy on a bad teams cores a lot but shoots poorly, you know his number is inflated and will drop once he plays with some other scorers.
if the rockets give up Mobley AND Steve for T-mac they will regret this move just like they have EVERY OTHER MOVE in Rockets history......
The thing that seperates T-Mac from Steve is his consistency. I'm tired of the Am-I-Hot-or-Not style of play. If a player shows up with his a-game every night, you'll be seeded higher in the playoffs, not as sucsceptible to choking, and capable of the BIG game, not just 40 points like Steve does every once in a blue moon, but 50+ with 15+ assists and rebounds. There's no comparison. TMAC!
McGrady made the playoffs every year with Orlando except last year though, didn't he? Francis didn't even make the playoffs until he was the second option on his team. When McGrady was the 2nd option with the Raptors, didn't they make the second round of the playoffs and take the (then) Eastern Conference Champs to seven games?
And what happened to Orlando? Actually, besides Detroit and Indiana that argument still holds. You still had half of the East teams in the playoffs with sub 500 records.
I'm sorry but this is one of the worst threads I've ever seen. This shouldn't even be a topic because there is no question that T-Mac is head and shoulders above Francis. Now, I am a Rockets fan but I am also a realist so I look at this objectively. Don't come with the stats to prove that Francis is just a notch below McGrady because stats are do not give the whole story. First off you have to ask yourself some objective questions. (1) Who would you rather build your team around, Francis or McGrady? (2) Who would you want taking the last shot in any game? If you can answer those two questions and still answer with Francis then I will keep you in my prayers because you need to do some soul searching. The bottom line is that McGrady is a much better shooter, finisher, creater, defensive player, and overall talent than Francis. Also, McGrady plays one of the toughest positions SG/SF in the league, how many true top flight point guards are there in the league? Now go and compare that to how many top flight SG/SF there are in the league! If you are still not convinced and holding on to your precious stats then ask yourself this. If you replaced Francis with McGrady and put Francis in Orlando with no help would the Magic have even won 21 games? I'm not saying Francis can't play, but I don't think he could have carried that Orlando team to 21 wins, as dismal as that is! If McGrady were on this team two years ago instead of Francis we sure as hell would not have missed the playoffs by one game! Additionally, when before we had Yao, Francis was never the one player teams concentrated to shut down. He always had way more help than McGrady ever had after Grant Hill went down. Before Yao Francis still had Eddie Griffin (one year before he went bye bye), Cuttino Mobley, Maurice Taylor, Cato, James Posey, etc. Francis has never had to 'carry' a team like McGrady. All of these players were/are infinetely better than anything McGrady had post Grant Hill. Closest McGrady had was Mike Miller who Orlando shipped out. Give me a lineup of PG: Moochie Norris SG: Cuttino Mobley SF: Tracy McGrady PF: Eddie Griffin C: Kelvin Cato and you make the playoffs in the West, while a lineup of PG: Steve Francis SG: Mike Miller SF: 80% Grant Hill b/c no one else on the team is better than that PF: Freaking Shawn Kemp! C: Andrew Declerq/Michael Doleac And they struggle to make the playoffs if that. This is crazy! Stop the madness!
So a lineup of PG: Francis SG: Miller SF: Monty Williams (Grant His only plays 4 games) PF: Bo Outlaw C: Declerq makes the playoffs with no questions? I'm not so sure about that. Granted that the first team out was Boston at 36-46 but removing McGrady changes the outlook of every game that season. The plus is that D-Armstrong comes off the bench, but then again that might be a bad thing. On the other hand, the Rockets would look like this in 00-01: PG: Moochie Norris SG: Tracy McGrady SF: Shandon Anderson PF: Maurice Taylor C: Hakeem Olajuwon (injured about 25 games) with a bench of SG: Cuttino Mobley C: Kelvin Cato PF: Kenny Thomas SF: Walt Williams SF: Matt Bullard Once you have to plug Monty Williams into your starting 5, you know there is a problem. If Grant Hill is healthy then there is no question, but without him I'm not so sure.
How is that lineup so much better than Francis Mobley Mo Taylor Shandon Anderson Hakeem (at 38 years old) If you think Monty Williams was a problem, look at Shandon's stats that season.
Francis isn't even in the same league as McGrady as far as scoring goes. As stated earlier, prior to last season, when teams could focus their entire defense on McGrady, he shot over 45% every season with the Magic. Francis has shot over 45% once in his 5 year career and that was prior to the defensive rule changes. One of the big differences is that McGrady can just go off and completely take over a game with his scoring. Francis can't approach the kind of number that McGrady can put up. Let's take a look at the last 4 seasons: - McGrady shot over 45% 3 of 4 seasons. Francis shot over 45% 1 out of 4 seasons. - In 4 seasons, Francis scored over 20 pts in a game a total of 142 times. In the same period, McGrady was over 20 points in 248 games. - In 4 seasons Francis has scored over 30 points in a game a total of 31 times. In the same period, McGrady scored over 30 in a game a total of 128 times. - In those 4 seasons, Francis has scored over 40 points 1 time. During those same 4 seasons, McGrady has been over 40 points 30 times. - McGrady has scored over 50 in a game 3 times. Francis has never scored 50 in a game. -McGrady has scored over 60 in a game 1 time. Franics has never scored over 60 in a game. Think about that, McGrady has scored over 40 points a total of 30 times, while Francis has only scored over 30 points a total of 31 times. That's a huge difference in point production.
So you honestly think that Francis is just a notch below McGrady? Would Francis have averaged 26 PPG for Orlando that year? If Francis is a notch below McGrady then Brad Miller is a notch below Yao Ming. Yeah, Francis is an allstar but he is by no measure Tracy McGrady. Just by the mere fact that McGrady is replaced with Francis makes the Rockets that much better. I guess adding a 26 PPG player for a 19 PPG player is not much better. Heck, having Mobley (19 PPG) coming of the bench is not considerably better than having Armstrong (15 PPG). Your right pgabriel, the numbers could be a wash, but I'll take my lineup over yours 7 days out of the week. Unfortunately in both Orlando and Houston (to a lesser extent) the GM's don't know how to build a team around their "star". On this note McGrady has had to deal with a lot more.
The 2 main points for those who think this is ridiculous seem to be that Mcgrady is a superstar and Steve isn't and look at the career instead of one year. What makes a superstar? A guy the league hypes up? A guy who gets lots of commercials? A guy who puts up huge numbers on a bad team? A guy with highlights on sportscenter every night, even though he takes 25-30 shots to get his? Sounds like it could be Steve from a few years ago, but fits T-Mac much better. I looked up the stats for their careers since everyone said it wasn't fair to use one year. Francis has a career .431 fg%. T-Mac has a Career .447 fg%. We are still only at a .16% differrence for thier careers. The rest of T-Macs stats go down for career while Steve's go up for career. I was doing T-Mac backers a favor by using Steve's worst year because last year is when everyone lost the love for steve. Like someone said Francis put up much better numbers when he was the main man on the team. It gives you a chance to find your rythym every night. How do we know T-Mac will not have the same problem as Steve trying to gel with this offense? His numbers would definately go down in Houston. So again does a differrence of .16 career fg% or .14 fg% from last year warrant trading 3/5 of your starting lineup? Just because a guy takes lots of shots to put up big numbers and is hyped into a superstar?
