This is for you, Yip. Yao Ming takes .38 shots per minute played. SF takes .35 shots per minute played. So if Yao could get in shape enough to play 40 mins a game like Steve does, he would be taking more shots than Steve. YAO TAKES MORE SHOTS PER MINUTE PLAYED THAN ANYONE ELSE. One more myth debunked. We know that ballhandling and passing are not Steve's sronest points. But we ask him to just do those things and let Yao do the scoring. That is the equivalent of asking Yao to be do the traditional Center's job and control the boards and block shots even though those aren't his strong points while taking away what he does best. You then criticise him because he's not putting up the numbers he used to. Then saying we should bring in a real center that can rebound and that the team will never go anywhere with a center that can't rebound or block shots. I think that is a very valid comparison.
After you complete your second year, you are considered a 3rd year player. At the end of next year, he will be considered a fourth year player.
Yes, but you like to put "3rd year" just to make it seem like he's been in the league for 3 full years. Just to make it *seem* like he's been in longer than really has.
Francis takes 14.3 shots per game. Yao takes 12.6 shots per game. Now, about your "YAO TAKES MORE SHOTS PER MINUTE PLAYED THAN ANYONE ELSE" statement. Yeah, and???? What's your point? Do you know why it's better that Yao take more shots than Francis (per minute or not)?
I almost can't wait for Steve to get traded to find out what kind of complaints you guys will have about the players we get back. I know everybody's anticipating a "pure" PG with "high b-ball IQ" who never turns the ball over and makes nearly every shot and flawlessly passes to Yao on every possession ... I just can't wait until you guys really get what you ask for.
see, that's all well and good. but yao shoots 52%, steve shoots 42%, or at least I wish he'd shoot that because that'd almost be okay. anyway... how about owning up to your statement that Steve gets "crumbs" that fall off of yao's chin? how many more shots would you have him shoot? hold on... i'm willing to admit that steve is taking 2 shots less per game this year than last year. so you are saying we would be better if we take two shots away from yao and give it to steve? Brilliant! also... please answer my other questions... if you think we should build around steve propose how.
I'm sure somone's mentioned this on this thread already, and every other thread that's been made with this EXACT same theme (there's been several), but how are so few people seeing the lack of logic in this thread??? You're basically saying to trade him if he does well for us - if he can carry us into the playoffs with some momentum, if he can get us some wins in the playoffs, if he starts showing us that he's a serious winner. And furthermore, you're saying NOT to trade him if he performs poorly? Oh I'm sorry, did you entirely skip over that entire second possibility? Because I'm not sure I saw that mentioned in this thread. Nobody seemed to acknowledge the fact that Francis MIGHT not perform this well the rest of the season... I sure as hell know Will didn't mention it. Am I to assume that you mean that even if Francis plays poorly the rest of the season and in the playoffs, then by some chance this game ALONE will keep his trade value high in the offseason for some unknown reason? So Francis' trade value is set high now, and can't be changed? You're either saying that, or you're saying that you want to keep him for longer if he plays pitifully... What in the holy ****??? Has your hatred for Steve decommissioned the entire left-side of your brain?
I want to keep SF3. Yao is not consistent as we expect. When Yao was contained in Nugget's game, SF stepped up big. Actually SF3's game is more efficient than Yao's when we play fast teams. I also doubt how could other team managers can be fooled by "overvalue" SF3. Come on, it's their full time job to evaluate a player by his real potential. I don't buy the theory that we need a "true" point guard to serve Yao. Times I have seen Yao miss 3 feet hook and jumpers when our guard did keep feeding him the ball. Sometimes we just need another style of game. Combination of Yao and SF3 is a good force in NBA. I don't predict they can dominate NBA for many years. But they will be a real competitor for Champion at their prime time.
Sure, Yao shoots a high percentage. He is also known to disappear for quarters, games, weeks at a time. Like I said, neither of them are good enough to carry a team to a ring. they need each other. So, here's a question for you. Name one time that Yao's offensive game wasn't on and he took up the slack in other areas - that he created a way to compete?
RocketGuy3, in a perfect world we "should" trade him now after a good game (try to fool unsuspecting GMs). But we know that's not going to happen. This thread is a fantasy "sell (like if we're in the stock market)." Park joke, part serious. But in reality, Francis "stock" will drop because he'll most likely return to his bad habits.
Finally! I got it! You try to point out weaknesses in Yao's game in order to "keep" Francis on this team. See, you say, "They need each other" in order to "keep Francis." It's not like you recognize Yao's talent, it's that you want to bring Yao down in order to make Francis flaws less evident. I got it now! Thank you! I disagree. And here's why. While it's true that Yao can't lead this team to a ring by himself (for reasons other than talent), the main issue should be whether or not Francis should be a part of this team (does he fit or not?). Not because of Yao's weakness. But rather Francis's weakness. Let me put it to you another way. Francis weaknesses are greater in number than Yao's. And Francis's strengths are less than Yao's. Francis's best asset is his athletic ability. As time goes on Yao will improve even on that. Francis is has been stagnant through his whole career. And, he's not worth what he's being paid. Early you mentioned Yao is worth half of his $3 million dollar contract. Uh, so is Francis worth half his $85 million dollar contract? Get real! Heh, heh...see, you can't apologize for Francis weaknesses because it would be absurd for you do so. So what you do is target Yao. You try and bring him down to Francis level. Sorry, but I'd rather have Ray Allen/Yao than Francis/Yao. They'd fit better and you'd have your "other" guy help Yao. There's your "need each other" for ya! If you've noticed I'm NOT of the "Yao can do no wrong crowd." To the contrary. But I recognize his over-all talent, his efficiency, and defensive presence. He changes the game. All this for a young player. That being said, I know that Yao needs another star to help him out. It's not Francis. That's my position.
Well in the Clipper game last week, Yao only scored 12 points, but he really set the whole tempo of the game with his defense in the openning quarter.
7'5'', 296 lbs, 23 years old. If he puts up numbers similar to his season averages in the playoffs... Trade him. It may be our last chance to get fair value, a player who can do as much for us as Ming can do for the other team. In the right (lack of) system, he's a hell of a player. In an American basketball league like the NBA, too many of his virtues are wasted, and too many of his flaws are lethal. Think Otis Thorpe for Clyde Drexler. Size for a player. That feeling you're having right now as you watch Ming -- "This is the guy everyone thought he could be, this is a guy who can put a team on his back and take them to the promised land" -- is the same feeling soem starry-eyed GM with a real center is having in front of a TV set right now. Find that GM, and let's make a deal.
I didn't mean for this to be another "trade Francis" thread. I didn't start it to bash him, certainly not after he played such a great game. He has tremendous heart. That hand in Miller's face on the final shot was Steve's, hustling back. What I'm trying to do is clarify that the question many people on this board have asked -- Can we improve our team by trading Francis? -- is not static. It's dynamic. It depends on what we can get for him, which depends in turn on how he's playing. If Francis stinks in the playoffs, then we probably can't improve by trading him, because nobody's going to offer us enough in return. But if he shines, we might get some attractive offers. If you think he'd continue to shine as a Rocket next year, then by all means, keep him. But if you think he'd go back to the level he played at this year, struggling to change his game to fit a Yao-oriented system, then why not consider trading him for a better fit? Some of you have argued that we can't get enough PG in return for Francis. You've suggested focusing on getting a PF instead. I think you make a good case. The object is to improve our team, and if we can do that best by targeting a PF, I'm all for it. Maybe brains and shooting is all we need at PG. Think of all the games Hakeem won with Kenny Smith. Some of you seem to think Steve is untouchable, on grounds of basketball talent or loyalty. I disagree with you, but I doubt I can change your minds. But for those of you who have a price at which you'd be willing to part with Steve -- this or that PF, plus this or that PG -- I'm hoping we can hit that price this summer. To do it, we need Steve's help. He'll be happier in the long run, and so will we.
Will, personally, Francis is a great player. But it feels like he only wants to shine if he is the main star of this team. But now with Yao on this team, he doesn't want to give the spotlight to anyone else. He is a very inconsistent TV player. But if he comes through in the playoffs and shows off to other teams that he is still a great player, I'm pretty sure we can get some quality players for him. A good PF and a good PG from FA, trades, or the draft should improve this team dramatically.
I reall like Steve Francis, but there are a few of things that bother me: 1. He is still the same player today that he was 5 years ago. He doesn't seem to want to do anything to enhance his game. He knew that Van Gundy was going to change the Rockets style of play, yet he wanted to do it HIS way. Remember, Hakeem worked on the little things every year to make sure his game was always top notch. I haven't seen this out of Steve. 2. Steve is supposed to be the team leader. What team leader allows his team to go on a five game losing streak during a playoff race? 3. He needs to remember that this is a team game, and not Rucker Park. I hope he stays, but he needs to grow up. It would be great if Calvin Murphy could do an R. Lee Ermey Job on him...
Maybe the Rockets should trade Francis for James Posey, that guy is putting up awesome numbers. Didn't he use to play for Denver...I think it was on some other Western Conference team - anyway...who cares, Francis for Posey!
