I can't say don't trade Steve, nor will I say we should trade him. But if he plays well in the playoffs that's only a good thing either way. A good playoff series will help him mature as player, IMO. Probably, most any kind of a playoff series will help him mature. Because if he experiences what it takes to play at the next level, he's a hard enough worker to go out and at least try to make it happen. If he does well and the team does well, then I would be most inclined to say that's something to grow on, and let's move forward with the team as is to see what happens. But at the same time, if we are offered a deal that will give us another player capable of carrying the weight when Yao isn't able, and is a better fit with our system, then it would be hard to turn that kind of a deal down. I think the chances of that kind of a deal being offered are slim, but not impossible. I would be open to a good trade, but not desperate to move Steve Francis. After all good play, a playoff birth, and a competitive playoff series only go to add evidence that Steve can help the team and work towards the ultimate goal with what we have.
This thread is truly sickening. How can you discuss trading Steve after seeing Yao crumble under the pressure in this late season run? Did you see the way Yao played last night? Sorry, but I don't feel that comfortable building a team around Yao right yet. Bottom line, when it was all on the line and gut check time came, Steve stepped up like a man and Yao reverted to pu$$y mode as he often has of late.
Regardless, every single play the Rockets run has the team trying to get the ball down low. So whether he shoots it or not, Yao dominates the offense becuase every single play is designed to get him the ball first. Everyone else has to just get crumbs. How many plays were run for Yao this season? How many plays were run for Steve? No contest. Yao had about a billion plays run for him this year. Steve maybe one or two a game.
Sometimes our guards didn't pass in time when Yao got his position in the low. Steve has scoring talent but no good court vision, though he have been trying to pass ball since the beginning of this season. In fact, we didn't play inside-out consistently. I think inside-out is right, JVG is right. If we can't do this, we waste Yao. If we want Yao to be involved in offense, Steve has to improve his court vision and pass skill. Or we trade either Yao or Steve.
It's not an either/or situation. SF can be a great player, and still not be the best choice as PG, or to keep on the team. It's not enough to have two great players, but two great players who enhance each others game. YM gets pushed around. Her gets tired. Physical fatigue leads to mental fatigue. All this Yao bashing is nonsense. YM does his job as center better than SF does his job as PG, so let's get real about this. SF is gone. The only thing that could change that would be a Mike Bibby playoff series, where he completely takes his game to the next level. SF for EB. I like to keep saying that. Kind of like in the Wizard Of Oz. Let's all say SF for EB, while clicking our feet together, and maybe next August it will happen. Though, I think SAR is a more likely choice. He's not a happy camper in Portland. Raven
One game, does not make a star. Francis & Yao can not flourish, for the long haul, on the same team. Period!!! Most of Francis's shooting woes can be directly attributed to the new system, that is designed to take advantage of a 7'5" 300 lb. giant with good hands, a soft shooting touch, great court vision, & an above average ability to pass the ball. A lot of Francis's success during the Rudy years was a direct result of opening up the middle. Steve's never been a great shooter. In fact, he's an average shooter at best. The strength of Francis's game, is his ability to break down the defense & go strong to the hole for one of his high flying acrobatic dunks. Take that part of his game away, & you have this year's below average shooting performance. He's definitely not a PG, as his 1.71/1 assist to turnover ratio proves. He's an undersized SG in the mold of Iverson. The only difference between the two, Francis is a better shooter. So, the real question should be, Who do you want to build your team around? Francis, or Yao? Like it or not, one of them has to go.
Right...fool me one, fool me twice... I am not a Francis hater. I am not blinded by hype or attached to players either. I'm not sure if Yao is capable yet of being the true leader and taking over games consistently, but we're not going to go anywhere having Francis as a PG. He's not a great SG. Anyone who wouldn't trade Francis for someone like Elton Brand is insane. As I've said many times, I'd rather trade Francis for a serviceable PG like Eric Snow and a solid forward like Harpring. This is a great idea Will, but I don't know if it'll happen with the genius that is Carroll Dawson and delusional Les.
I like how stupidmoniker totally shot your post down, and then you come back with this. crumbs? he just said steve still takes the most shots on the team. those are some large crumbs. basically you just made him waste a very intelligent post. The main point is this. Maybe Yao isn't dominant on a consistent basis. but a blind man can see that steve and yao's games don't mesh. A) do you think Steve can develop a game that matches Yao's? I don't think you do. You think we should de-emphasize Yao and split the shots up. That's a crappy game plan. Who does that? What championship team in the modern era has done that? Don't bring up the old Celtics, that kind of basketball is dead. No, championship teams have an established game plan where you go in and set the tempo. B) if we don't trade steve, how are we going to improve as a team? trade yao? you've said that you'd take Nowitzki over Yao right? See why don't you call up Mark Cuban and ask if he'd do that, if the salaries were possible. Even Carroll Dawson... heck even Danny Ainge has better smarts than accepting that kind of trade. So tell me this, have you ever made one proposal about how we can get better beside giving Yao the ball less? Or are you delusional enough to think that we have championship talent right now and just need to give the ball to Yao less and that'll put us over the top? Please don't try to act like you know the best interests of the team. You are either a Yao hater or a Steve only fan. I guess that's okay and acceptable, but just don't pretend that you are unbiased and have real argument why by giving the ball to Yao less we'd improve.
I want to echo these sentiments. You never want to trade away good talent. So deep down inside I don't want to trade steve. But you have to want to improve the team. It's delusional to think that by trading away MoT, Cato, or Cat to some mentally challenged Eastern Conference team we can land the missing peices, like a defensive, athletic power forward who can shoot. How many of those are there anyway? You're not gonna get a star unless you trade a star. Right now Cat and JJ are playing great for how much money they make. They are good role players. I shuddered when I typed that and thought of Cat but you know I think I believe this to be true. Cato and MoT make 7 million dollars a year. Sure I appreciate Cato (there's even a thread saying this) and MoT for their offensive and defensive contributions, but they're horrible contracts. Is it really going to be that easy to find a team so friggin desperate for size that they'll trade us one of their good players for MoT or Cato? And if they do it's gonna be a guard, because if they have size then why do they do a trade in the first place? The best we'd be able to do is land someone who needs a change of scenery like Juwan Howard or *shudder* Antoine Walker. We don't need that. That's why Steve's our most tradeable commodity.
from francis for prez: No, you don't get it. If you want to start a thread empowering a great game by a sometimes great player I'll chime in gladly. I do love the guy, but whether or not people realize it - this is about rings. Making the playoffs? I haven't cared in the last 3 years. Last night I did care and for what it's worth I'd rather have SF have the game he did last night than Yao go off for 50 & 20. For one thing Steve needed to do that for himself. Secondly we're a talented team that plays badly when SF is "on" or not - and we win a little more than a few regardless. That's it. Macbeth, where are you here? I believe two universes have started merging upon this forum. And the quandry is: 1) Should Clutch start separates forums for those that believe SF must remain here and one for people who are sick and tired of watching bad basketball? or 2) we trade Yao and get whomever we want so Steve won't have to excel? Juugie, Yao is an unprescedented guy in every sense of the word playing the position of a dying breed in the NBA and has meandered through less than two seasons. You are wrong about every "but right now..." button you've pushed. Steve's gone. Les' talk about a run toward a championship this year are as ludicrous as your posts. If you are Les, it won't matter because I'll never read them again.
see? i keep saying that too... but then i want to see if he's come up with any new reasons or reasons that make sense so i read on, but then no.
Yao is 3 games away from being a 3rd year player. He is also an 17.5 / 9.1 guy this year and a career 15.5 and 8.6 guy. Those are the facts. You can project anything you want on him. I'm just telling you what he is. 17 and 9. I know you don't want to accept this. In your mind, Yao is a 30/20 guy squashing the competition and laying waste to the entire NBA. Maybe on your Playstation, Yao is the greatest player ever. But here, on planet Earth, in this universe, in the year 2004 he is a 17 and 9 guy. Hardly qualifies as "an unprescedented guy in every sense of the word". No doubt there have been lots of 17 and 9 guys. Amare is averaging 20 and 9 this year and 16.1 and 8.9 for his career. So by the numbers, he's not even the best player from his draft - not to mention "an unprescedented guy in every sense of the word." Also, I would say that watching your 7'5 center having his shot spiked volleyball style by a 6'7 shooting guard is the worst kind of basketball ever. Also, if you believe so much in your point of view, there wouldn't be a need to avoid someone else's. There are plenty of people I disagree with here, but I'll at least read what they have to say. In fact, sometimes, even though I disagree with them, someone will bring up a valid point that I never considered. Be a man, cowboy up, and defend your point. Don't run.
What is your point? Please make one... If it's that Yao can't do it a lone. Well duh! This thread is about whether or not Francis can complement Yao in the future. Not about how "good" or "not good" Yao is. Don't embellish the numbers. He's 3 games away from *completing* his 2nd year of the regular season. He hasn't even finished his full 2nd year until after the playoffs are done. What? Just because we are at the end of his 2nd year, that supposed to mean that he's already into his 3rd year? Give me a break! Talk to me at the end of next year and we can talk about a "3rd year player." Nice spin man!
Amare takes so many damn shots and the refs are his B@tch. I watched the kings and suns game yesterday and the guy cant shoot and if you touch him u get a foul called on you. ONly thing he can do is dunk. Shutup juggie.
