Is he talking about the Steve Francis that plays for the Rockets. I thought Steve Fancy just skipped the ball up the floor. Weren't we one of the worst fast break teams in the association?
Shawn Marion 2001-2002 19.1 ppg 9.9 rpg 1.84 spg 1.06 bpg 353-452 FT - 84.5% 48-122 3PT - 39.3% Just because his shot is awkward looking doesn't mean he can't shoot. His outside shot, especially on three-pointers, has improved significantly each year he's been in the league.
That was agreat article, and it raises about a thousnd conversation points (much as good art should). Somehow "Awesome article, NJRocket, thanks a million for posting that!" just doesn't seem to go far enough. I think the anynomity (I apologize for my spelling, yet again) of the contributors really helped. Nobody seemed to have an agenda or was afraid of reprisals. they didn't seem to have the same tired old prejudices/rose colored glasses that I/we seem to have. One of the first things that pops up to me, is how many players should get the max? Best player on every team, best palyer on playof teams, only young players, top 10% of the league ( that's about 35 players) or what? I am shocked by what centers make. Cato's salary is right on average. And I think when measured against all centers (realistically - not I woulde trade him for a used jock strap mentality) he is about average. What a shock to think that he is paid fairly. Of course "fairly" is used in the sports contex, which has no basis in reality. On waiting till Steve has resolved the headache issue. In the real world, I agree 100%. In the sport world of hurt feelings by superstars (Chris Webber - The Rockes dissed me by not pursuing me after I told them I was not interested and will make them pay) you run the risk that he is ok, but now feels some other team will show him the love. Great post.
Hmmm... I don't think I'd include Michael Finley with that group. He can shoot from the outside, regularly gets 4.5 assists and 5 rebounds per season, he's the best defender on their team (and of all the players listed), and he's their only post threat (!?!). I'm not to sure about Jamison on that list either, but I guess considering he can't play defense he isn't quite a max player...
I think the main reason why Steve is being sent to Mayo prior to being officially offerred the MAX contract by CD is for insurance purposes. Lloyd's of London is not gonna sign off on Francis till he gets his head checked and approved. Francis has likely been made well aware of this too and realizes no team is gonna sign him to a MAX contract without insurance in place in case he goes down for any reason.
That was really interesting to read! Makes the Cato contract not look TOO horrible. I guess we should not be surprised though as it seems every summer that is a FA center that is average or has a "decent" year and some team thinks that center will take off and be great and they get a huge contract and end up being very mediocre or just plain suck. Just goes to show you that if you are big and tall you don't have to have a lot of skill to make the bank. Chris
Good point Pat about Cato vs other centers....no doubt, someone (probably the Knicks) is going to pay Jerome James or rasho Nesterovic a ton of money this year and not get much more out of them than we got out of Cato
Francis deserves the max and is gonna get it so thats not even something that needs to be debated. (He only missed 3-4 games b/c of the headaches so I'm not that worried.) Marion on the other hand is very interesting. Guy goes 20 & 10 at the SF position which is amazing. Verse you are right about Marion showing little improvement w/ his dribbling & D. When they played the Rocks here the second time this year, Marion killed them coming off a pick and taking a 18ft jumper Reggie Miller style. So at least his J is improving. If a team can afford to have 2-3 max players at one time then I think Marion is definitely worth it, 20 & 10 as a SF!
Androgynous one (Pat), see that's just it. what is a max player now? i know many nba teams pay max players - now - based on potential. imo, that is HUGE mistake. the only max players should be centerpieces for a franchise...go to type players that carry the team. a franchise should usually only have 2 max players on their roster. think about the teams that have been title holders for the past decade and the "max" players they possess(ed). lakers: shaq and kobe *spurs: tim duncan rockets: hakeem olajuwon and clyde drexler chicago bulls: michael jordan & scottie pippen these teams did not tie their salaries up with fringe max players like shawn marion or michael olowokandi...guys that have NOT proven that they can carry a team even in the regular season, much less the playoffs. will some team give shawn marion, michael olowokandi, ray allen, etc. the maximum? sure. and they will be idiots for doing so, once they discover (after the fact) that these guys are not capable of carrying their respective teams. so, then the team is locked into a max contract with a guy that they CANNOT move. so where will that team find help at? where will they find their franchise player? to me, only one of 2 things happen: 1) they get lucky. see: sacramento. chris webber, imo, is not a franchise player. he is not a guy i would pay the max for, because he has NEVER proven to me that he can carry a team. he's good enough to get you in the playoffs, with the proper supporting cast, but never good enough (or have enough balls) to be the "go to guy". how did they make it through the playoffs this year? see: mike bibby. mike bibby proved to be there go to guy. without him, they would have crumbled quicker than they did. they got lucky to sucker the grizz into trading bibby for white chocolate. they picked up their go to man that way. and, still, it probably won't be enough, because bibby has yet to prove that HE can consistently carry a team (although i think he will prove that next season). this leads into my second scenario: 2) teams with borderline franchise players that make the max will forever dwell in mediocrity. without a true crunchtime player, they'll never be good enough to rise to the top of the nba. still, those fringe franchise players are good enough to keep them from getting a high pick in the lottery. they'll always be 1st or 2nd round players, but as the saying goes: always a bridesmaid, never a bride. see: minnesota (yes, kg is a borderline franchise player, imo). see: portland (a entire team of borderline franchise players). see: seattle (payton's a former franchise player, that is now borderline).
Verse...you are puting too much emphasis on a "max" player being a cornerstone player with hall-of-fame-like credentials etc. The "max" has nothing to do with that. It has all to do with what a team is willing to pay a guy for his services..worthy of the money or not.
NJRocket, the "max" has everything to do with that if you are trying to build an nba championship team. i understand what you're saying about market value, and i agree that there will always be a fool willing to pay more than a person's actual worth. my point is that championship teams DO NOT DO THIS. fringe players that threaten to walk to another team unless they are paid the max should be traded or coupled with other player(s) in order to get a true franchise cornerstone player. DO NOT OVERPAY FOR FRINGE FRANCHISE PLAYERS. if it cost you that player, so be it, because that player was never going to lead you to the promise land anyway.
Actually, I hope the owners put a little squeeze on some of these players. Of course the salaries are ridiculous, but the players' sense of worth is way out of proportion. Max players: Steve Francis, Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant, Paul Pierce, Tim Duncan. Non-max players: Wally World, Shane Battier, Bonzi "Headcase" Wells, etc. There are players like Donyell (sp?) Marshall wanting a substantial raise from $6.2 million dollars. Sorry: you should thank God you don't have to work for a living (so to speak) and get paid such money as it is. When Michael Jordan got paid, it ruined the league's payroll. I'm not saying the players don't deserve $$$, but hopefully the luxury tax will curb this habit of throwing top dollar at mediocre players. For example, will Juwan Howard turn down whatever offer he gets next year? Will he be as "insulted" as he was when, after his rookie contract, he was offered a starting pay of "only" $11,000,000?
In all fairness though, the Lakers (champs the last 3 years) didn;t have to do this...they were able to sign Shaq to an outrageous contract and surround him with pieces. Granted, one of those pieces is Kobe (a player whom I am sure you deem worthy of max dollars). If anyone is to catch the Lakers while Shaq and Kobe are in purple and gold unis, then you have to do all you can to hold on to your own talent...especially if guys in the league who arent as good are setting a high market value...even if it costs you max dollars. Im not saying that a lot of max players are worthy of what they are making or that any of them are able to lead their team to a title...but if say the Hornets decide to waive goodbye to Baron Davis, he will certainly get his cash elsewhere and probably, at worst, move the team he ends up with ahead of the Hornets. Passing on a potential max player only makes the ladder to a championship that much harder to climb.
I think the point to remember is the issue of supply and demand! How many teams would like a PG with the skills of Franchise..answer is of course all of them! The salary cap automatically takes out some of the demand because teams don't even have the chance to pay these players. We should look at the supply side..how many PG compare to Stevie (I would be curious to know your opinions on this answer) probably a few..definitely less than more.. so mix this all in and you get low supply and a higher demand! This results in a high price.. now the MAX comes into play when you assess whether you can replace that player with one of equal skill for less than the MAX..I think if we went after any comparable player..we would be talking MAX dollars.. It's obvious another team would pay the MAX so whether we really want to or not we will have to pay it!
I really liked this article. It was comforting to be reminded that Cato isn't the only overpaid center out there, in fact, he's making less than the average. What was more important, however, is to here that the GMs who were interviewed believed that Francis is a max player. Take that Steve haters!
I also feel this article affirms the fact that Cato does indeed have trade value. We dog on Cato for good reason, but the fact is that we really do have a very tradeable asset. If we trade Cato, I hope we get value for him.
Yeah, I also realized that Cato makes LESS than the AVERAGE. Last year, he didn't do less than what the average C does. Cato isn't overpaid. You want overpaid, lookk at Calvin Booth.
