Houston is a concrete jungle, you're right. But I wouldn't say it is butt ugly, it has its moments. Vancouver is a beautiful city, I'll admit that. ------------------ "We don't have any plans. We just plan to win." Mack Brown
It isn't like the Grizzlies got totally ripped off...Othella & Michael Dickerson aren't too bad of a deal for Stevie Franchise. ------------------ Who's ya daddy?
Can we introduce Dickey to RoyDElton and see if they can make sheep together? ------------------ SUCK POLICE!!!!!! To point out individuals or teams that have managed to reach the pinnacle of SUCKINESS!!!!! ----- JAZZ SUCK!!!!!!!
Vancouver fans - Get a life (and another NBA team after this one leaves for that matter). Posters who empathize (I know how you feel attitude)with Vancouver fans - Get a clue. Steve Francis made it known if he did not get drafted #1 by Chicago that he did not want to be drafted by Vancouver, but what to those idiots north of border do, eh? They draft the kid anyway. What did they not believe him or was it just that they did not care about his feelings. Either way that just says more about what type of backwards franchise you got there. Stop blaming Francis for your GM's mistake. Francis is a point gaurd and he did not want to play at the two, he also wanted to start. All of this was public knowledge what do you or your GM not get ESPN in Canada? But you still drafted him anyway, eh? So finally you start taking him seriously and decide to trade him (thanks by the way)for some role players and a draft pick, and what happens, he makes a big splash in the NBA: making some spectacular plays, almost winning the dunk contest, named co-rookie of the year and made a definite impact on our team (especially with all of our stars going down). Not to mention the fact that he is currently averaging more points per game than the two key players that we traded to get him, Dickerson and Harrington. And guess what? As you probably know one of those players doesn't like Vancouver either and just might wind up back in Houston. Bet you wish you would've drafted differently now, eh? Baron Davis or Lamar Odom or even Shawn Marion is looking real good to you right now, eh? So here's a little cheese to go with your whine. Get over it and move on, cause your franchise has got alot bigger issues than the fact that Steve and other NBA players (including some of your own) don't want to play for you. Try for instance worring about how to stop being consistently dead friggin' last in the division every year. Nuff' Said? ------------------ [This message has been edited by Odiggidy (edited January 09, 2001).]
First off, some of you can insult Houston all you want, but I'm proud to live here and won't go anywhere else and it looks like a lot of people feel the same way seeing as we are the 4th most populated city in the nation. With that being said, many of you don't like Steve's minor showboating, but to me it shows that he loves to play the game. Seeing him enjoy his success in the game is fun for me to watch. It's better than watching some guy who's only there to get a check.
How pathetic and insecure do the people of vancouver have to be to never forget that a young professional athlete from maryland doesn't like the weather or the high taxes? ------------------
Two words, "Big Country". If I were Steve Francis I'd rather superglue my butt cheeks together than play with that worthless piece of crap. ------------------
Hey..I ventured into the enemy's territory and didn't come out looking that bad. I am glad some of you Rocket fans DO agree that Francis has a lot of growing up to do. What bothers me about those who supported Francis' slap in the face to Vancouver, is that you guys fail to recognize that Francis, nor any player, should have the right to determine where he wants to play. Fine then, if your a baby and a whiner and can't accept making millions playing a sport in an unfamiliar city, ask for a trade, but don't insult a city you don't know two sh*ts about. Playing point guard and being on a winner had nothing to do with Francis wanting out of Vancouver, contrary to a few posts. He was just ignorant and didn't give Vancouver a chance. Don't tell me to get over this, because if your city was insulted like that, in front of the entire NBA (which doesn't bode well for Vancouver's image in the league) there's no chance in hell you would just let that slide. You should just tell your little prized possession to quit doing the hop skip and a jump in front of the GM Place crowd (which I thought he actually gave the crowd the middle finger) last time you guys were here. And by the way, just a reminder, when Francis made those comments about Stro it was HE who rehashed this whole episode, not Vancouver, getting Grizzly fans even more ticked off, regardless if his intent was toungue in cheek. ------------------ Go Grizz!
By weasling out of playing for Vancouver, Steve undermined the entire draft process. It sets a terrible precedent and in my mind, the NBA should never have let it happen davo...interesting comments, but I don't see the logic. I don't really see how Francis undermined the draft process. He simply played by the rules of the NBA draft. Vancouver drafted him and owned his draft rights. Francis had the option of not signing with Vancouver, sitting out the year and re-entering the draft in the following season. Seems like Vancouver thought that Francis was serious about not signing with them. At that point, draft rules gave the Grizzlies two options: 1) Keep Francis and have until the next draft to sign him or 2) trade his rights. They choose to trade his rights. Those are the rules for the draft. Francis was abiding by the NBA draft rules and so was Vancouver, so how is that undermining the draft process? I'm not following how you can undermine a process, by simply complying to the rules of the process. You can't force a person to work for a company that they don't want to. That's the very reason the NBA has the provision for players to sit out the year and re-enter the draft. Do you get upset when European players get drafted by an NBA team and don't sign? Those players are no different. The player has options, the team has options. What bothers me about those who supported Francis' slap in the face to Vancouver, is that you guys fail to recognize that Francis, nor any player, should have the right to determine where he wants to play Steve Francis didn't have the right to determine where he wanted to play (else he'd probably have been in ChiTown or Washington), but he did have the right to determine where he didn't want to play. Every player that isn't under contract to a team has the right to NOT sign with any team. In some cases, that might mean that they can't play in the league for a year (Francis' case). But, if the player is willing to sit out a year, league rules give them the rights to not sign with a particular team. Whether you like it or not that's the league rules. Can you name any profession sport that works any differently? If you want to complain about Francis' comments or actions...fine. But, blaming Francis for simply taking the options provided him by the rules of the NBA Draft is ridiculous. ------------------
Well Dickey do you like KOBE? He did the same thing . . . infact he threatened to go to college rather than play for Charlotte [arrogant snot nose str8 out fo high school] and Charlotte got screwed a lot harder in that deal with the lakers than Vancouver did with the Rockets. I'm willing to bet this happens more often than we know .. it was just public I'll shrug it off . . Can we compile a list of folx that forced trades. and then compare Of the teams that they left who got screwed the most Kobe - Charlotte Screwed HARD Kemp - Sonics got away ok Francis - Vancouver got some nice stuff for a Rookie + [even got Mass back] Rocket River others? ------------------
I don't give a **** what people say about Houston. Houston's ugly, hot, humid, etc. Yet, it's the 4th largest city in the US and has more people then Vancouver. Dickey, in the US, you actually do have a right to pick where you work, although I know the NBA can seem like a dictatorship. I don't know how things are done in socialist Canada. But seriously, Steve said he didn't want to play SG, and he didn't want to play in Vancouver. Too bad your stupid GM didn't believe him. He thought he could convince Steve to play in Canada, but he couldn't. And guess what, NO free agents want to go to Vacnouver. In fact, your two best players are racing to get out of there. Is that blunt enough for you ? ------------------ "We don't have any plans. We just plan to win." Mack Brown
Dickey Simpkins, You guys are still b****ing about that whole Steve Francis thing...you must really be down in the doldrums over there in Grizzworld. Dickey, The only way to save your Franchise would be for Grizzlies managment to insist that David Stern schedule a weekly visit by Steve Francis and the Rockets throughout the season. You would certainly set a new season attendance record. And if this comes to past, look forward to an inevitable economical boom within the Local Farmers community; for when the Rockets pay a visit Vancouverites will most certainly cure their revengul nostalgia by making pre-game rituals to every Farmers Market within city. ------------------ [This message has been edited by ROCKETBOOSTER (edited January 10, 2001).]
Dickey! I have one question to ask you. Did you throw a tomato or any other foods at Steve Francis?! If you did... Look, just read the thread below and you'll understand why Houstonians, like myself, despise you tomato wasting, nostalgic bastards. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum7/HTML/002546.html ------------------
aelliot Yes, Francis acted within the rules, but that doesn't mean I think its right. The principle of the draft is to allow weaker teams to pick better players and promote equity within the league. Was Vancouver stupid for picking Francis after he said he never wanted to play there? Yes, but they should never have been put in that position. One argument may be that they drafted him with every intention of trading his rights, but I do not believe that. If so, they would have told Francis' agent and you wouldn't have seen the childish reaction on draft day. My belief is that Francis forced a trade, and I strongly believe that this undermines the trade process, within the rules or not. aelliot, can you seriously say that potential draftees having the ability to influence where they play is anything but an undermining of the evening out process of the draft? My beef is not with Francis anyway - I said that "The NBA should have never allowed it" They should change the rules. Play for the team that drafts you or play in the CBA/Europe. odiggidy I already have a clue, but thanks for the advice. "Try for instance worring about how to stop being consistently dead friggin' last in the division every year. Nuff' Said? Maybe if their high first round draft picks actually played for them they wouldn't finish last. What do you want, Vancouver to roll over and die, just give up? Should the NBA pull out of Canada? All the problems you mention - players not wanting to go there, high taxes etc, are serious problems facing the competition. If the NBA wants to continue its expansion and broaden its fan base, these are the problems it needs to overcome, and the actions taken by Francis and his agent have not helped, in fact they've made it much worse. ------------------ Maybe all the rulers are wrong. Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info
The NBA Draft rules gave Vancouver the rights to Steve Francis. Democracy gave Francis the right to refuse. If Vancouver wanted to retain the rights, Steve has the right to go play in Europe or not play at all. The Grizz could have called his bluff. Instead, they received 2 experienced starters. I hope those in Vancouver don't take this too personally, but if I were a recent college graduate seeking employment I'd take 90 degree concrete over 45 degree rain forrests everytime. This is a value judgement on my part - but in economic democracies it's allowable. I'm from Ohio and I hate the weather there (and their state income tax). When I visit (spring or summer), and someone bashes Texas b/c it's hot, humid, or crowded I don't take it personally. And neither should Vancouver fans who find it offensive that Steve did not want to be there. Get over it. It's juvenille. Steve Francis is not the first draftee with a preference and he's far from the last. Long live economic choices. ------------------ GATER [This message has been edited by GATER (edited January 10, 2001).]
aelliot, can you seriously say that potential draftees having the ability to influence where they play is anything but an undermining of the evening out process of the draft? My beef is not with Francis anyway - I said that "The NBA should have never allowed it" They should change the rules. Play for the team that drafts you or play in the CBA/Europe. You do realize that it is impossible to force a player to commit to a contract and play for a specific team? So, you have to give the player other options, but those options come with consequences (such as having to sit out a year and not play professionally). As far as undermining the process, it's not like Vancouver got nothing in return for Francis. Don't you remember all the Vancouver folks posting that they robbed us in the deal because they got Dickerson, Othella and a pick? Last year it was a great trade for Vancouver and now all of a sudden they got robbed? No matter what your opinion was on the trade, I don't remember anybody saying that Vancouver didn't get a fair deal. So, to that end the draft process worked: Vancouver sucked, they got a high pick and they improved their talent level. Could Vancouver have done better by drafting another player? Possibly, but they knew the situation, they made a choice and now they have to live with it. The rules change that you are sugesting already exists. If Francis had signed with any professional league (Europe or otherwise), then Vancouver would have retained his NBA rights. That's how Portland was able to hold the rights to Sabonis or how the Clips held Danny Ferry's rights. If Francis didn't want to play in Vancouver, then the only way that Vancouver would have lost his rights was if Stevie had sat out a year and not signed with anyone professionally. That's exactly what J.D. Drew did a couple of years ago in baseball. He was the first overall pick by the Phillies, but chose to play a season in an amateur league and reenter the draft the following year where he got picked 6th by the Cardinals. Very few players are in a position to do that, that's why it's so rare for it to happen. Did Vancouver believe that Steve was going to sit out a whole year? I don't know, but that is his option and Vancouver knew it going in. I'm sorry but you've got to live in the present. The day's of a team holding a players rights and the player having no choices is over and it's not coming back. It's exactly the same in every other sport. Is it undermining the process, when the team with the most cap space doesn't get the best free agents? How's that any different? Chicago is terrible and they can't give their money away. Should the NBA force players to sign with Chicago rather than taking less money from other teams? You're looking at everything from the teams perspective and missing the other side; the player's perspective. Sure teams have rights, but so do players. ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited January 10, 2001).]
Don't you all get it? Don't you see? They are coming here regularly, complaining about Francis and the draft day fiasco, and we are turning on each other! They are winning, it is working. SHHHH, do you hear that? ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
