Records aside...I'll get to that later.... Statistically speaking,T-Mac is wayyyyyy better than Francis. He's a shooting guard. And a damn good one. His assist rating is 5.6 while maintaining a 2.9 TO rate. His ppg is 27. Now, giving the stats alone. Francis can't touch that. Plus, the roles are different. PGs are supposed to make their teams better by distributing the ball in efficient ways so that they can setup the role players for easy shots. If a SG can do that, then that's a bonus. But that's not required at the same level as a PG. Statistically, Francis is neither a great PG, nor great SG. At least T-Mac is an elite SG. All you have to do is imagine T-Mac on our team. A team that already has a sense of roles, and an actual system with a strong defense (Yao). Given that the Rox have more talent than Orlando also is a factor in terms of record. If Francis was on Orlando he'd do worse! A lot worse, because he'd be taking his bad stats with him. Even if he was 20/6/6 again. It wouldn't matter. T-Mac on our team would improve our team greatly because of his high scoring (27ppg), low turnovers (2.9) for a SG, our current talent pool, and defensive minded system. Plus, JVG his on our team. There's too many things going against Francis that does NOT make him the "equal" to T-Mac. Sorry, I just don't see it. Take all things into account. Not just T-Mac record. Juwan Howard is his best teammate. Mobley T-Mac JJ MoT Yao That team is better...not sure why you can't see that.
Stupid argument David. Steve would average 30 in Orlando too. And TMac would average about 20 in Houston because Van Gundy wouldn't let him by with dogging it on the defensive end. TMac has been a real let down this year. Yes he is a superstar talent. But he would not make a difference in this team. In fact, I highly doubt if Van Gundy would even trade for him because of his lack of defense. Steve is in his class as a player. If Steve were allowed to free lance every night, he could match TMac's stats. TMac is the "pampered prima donna" that Steve wishes he was. Steve doesn't get the pampers here.
Francis is not that prolific a scorer. He's not that good. Plus, Steve would increase his TO rating even more "TRYING TO SCORE MORE." When Francis overextends himself, he creates UNFORCED TURNOVERS. That's what Francis problem was in the past. A lot of his turnovers were caused by him trying to score in sitations where there was no shot. Francis just does not have the ABILITY (physical; hands, height, strength) to score at that rate. Going ISO ball does not produce that much for Francis. Francis shooting 22 shot per game is not he same as T-Mac shooting 22 shots per game. Why? More shots would go in for T-Mac because he would know when not to force things as much (less unforced turnovers). Decision making is key to scoring too. Not just passing. And if you mean, jacking up 30 shots a night like Iverson. Well, then you'd still have his bad shooting percentage and turnovers. That would still be there. And that would hurt the team even more...because even T-Mac wouldn't do that. And yes, T-Mac is a pampered prima donna too. But that has to do with the league as a whole being in bad state.
I think Steve's scoring ability is a lot closer to Stephon Marbury and Ray Allen than it is to Marbury. Those are two players that have moved around to a couple of different teams, yet their production has remained pretty much the same wherever they go (around the low 20's). To expect Steve to go from 16ppg to 30ppg is just ridiculous I think. Allen and Marbury career high points per game in a season are both 24ppg, while Steve's career high is 21ppg. A nine point leap in scoring average is a humongous leap.
I tend to agree with jopatmc. And look at where Orlando got with letting T-Mac be the pampered primadonna that could take any shot he wanted.
Sir Jackie Chiles, you think that SF could score 30ppg if given more shots? Do you know how hard that is? Do you know what type of ability you need to maintain that scoring average? That's why Jordan was Jordan, Shaq is Shaq, and Iverson is Iverson. They have a natural talent to maintain that scoring level over 82 games.
Really nice comment! JVG's coaching style somehow prevents his players from contributing their effort 100% on the court. As a good coach, you cannot always put blames on your players. JVG is still far away from being a great coach.
it takes talent to take 20 shots? francis only took 7 shots yesterday, and scored 11 points. Obviously we dont want him to take 20 shots, even yao. We want it to be steady. Even if t-mac was in houston, fans would not want him to take that many shots. But if francis was in a team like orlando, where there isnt any other option, it is required for francis or a player his caliber to take that amount of shots. But francis is on a team where there are atleast 3 other players who can score well also. Francis and yao should be able to take 15 shots each. Mobley comming around picks and screens should be able to take 10 shots, same with JJ. And whenever our starters arnt scoring effeciently, mo should come off the bench with a spark. Thats what all the roles for scoring is on this team. Its that simple. Francis should not be having only 7 attemps, neither should yao. It makes them totaly inefficient.
Yup. I can tell David is obsessed with TMac being the answer here. What a joke! He'd be in Van Gundy's doghouse faster than you could say Piatkowski.
T-Mac is just a suggestion. He's not a central focus of this thread. As far as Francis... JVG has Francis taking less shots not because it helps the the team more, but rather because it hurts the team less. As Francis responsibility goes up, the team suffers because Francis idea of helping the team actually causes more harm than good; more shots, more dribbling, with his customary turnovers. What hurts the team less? Francis taking less shots, less dribbing, while maintaining customary turnovers.
im sorry, but i cant except a max contract person, whos only job is to lob it to yao. Trade francis for derkick fisher then if you want francis to do that.
It takes quite a bit of talent to take 20 good shots while the defense is gearing to stop you. Ask Yao how hard it is to take even 10 shots when the defense is focused on him.
what do you mean by 20 good shots? Ai shots under 40%. Does he still take good shots? WHen the rockets played orlando, we saw how many shots mcrady jacked up. I mean he got the O rebound and ran back to the three pt line and throws up a fadeaway 3.
Exactly! Francis demotion is due to necessity, rather than what we'd prefer. Either he improves, or we trade him.
how is it necessity. JVG even says steve should be taking the saem amount of shots from last year. He is an exelent player. He is soooo overrated that he is underated.
I'm not going to defend Iverson because I think he's overrated. But Mcgrady for his career makes 45% of his shots and is 4th in the league in efficiency this season. That is a better % than Steve has had for any season in his career. If someone can shoot 20 times a game and make 45% of their shots, I want them to shoot until their arm falls off. I don't care how bad the shot looks, if he makes a good percentage of those shots, it's a good shot.
What I meant was "necessity for the time being." Meaning, we keep him playing this way (less shots,less dribbling) until he shows improvement this year OR until we trade him. Beacuse for max contract person, he should improve, right? I mean, he needs to show us something.
francis in one season averaged 15 shots a game with a 45% fg percentage. He definitly has the caliber to then take 20 shots(that is fitting your requirments).
how can he get better shooting wize if he takes less shots? all that will do is lower his confendince.
