So, the chance to play with Harpring on a rebuilding Jazz team is more attractive than playing with Yao on an emerging Rockets team. Gotcha! You may be right about the $, however, but I still think it's worth a shot. Don't underestimate the Rockets' chances. And you're right, Miller's the best PG right now who fits that ideal. There's also PGs like Alvin Williams & Jamal Crawford who may be available, but they're combo Gs. Fact is, the true distributing PG is rare these days, but still not as rare as the proven point F. Your projected lineup is interesting, but I'd actually prefer Jeryl Sasser from Orlando. Cheaper than McInnis, bigger, younger, and a better defender. As far as the Miles-Miller deal, I can't clearly say if it was driven by economics or winning, so I won't speculate. But then again, using your logic, if the Clips are so obsessed with $, why trade a potential MAX player in Miles for another potential MAX player (at the time of the deal) for Miller? In the past, the Clips would've just hung with Miles until they lost him to free agency, and\or just found a journeyman to play PG. That's another topic, though. The whole point of my bringing up the Miles-Miller deal wasn't to totally dismiss the concept of a point F as much as it was to display that teams still value a PG who can play PG. So I guess my real question is: Why keep your PG at PG if he'll be better at SG?
Dang, this argument a g a i n Steve Francis has always said he wants to be the quarterback. That role can happen at the 1 and the 2. How would Steve view it differently? His view of his role will not really change anymore than AI's, so I don't really see what big change this will make. He's not comparable to AI in speed, and he's not even faster than Mobley, (nor Calvin) so I don't see all these taller guys he's going to beat versus the plethora of PGs he outmuscles or out jumps on a nightly basis, nor do I see how him taking guys off the dribble all the time changes our offense. Calvin telling him it will do wonders for his game is not what it is about. It is supposed to do wonders for Yao's game. It is not like there is a #1 pick John Lucas out there who Calvin slid over for, and deferred to. Can someone explain to me how moving Steve to the 2 guard solves anything, other than in theory? Define the problem that it is supposed to solve. The problem is that SF doesn't make people around him better, right, somewhat like the early Jordan/AI? The big comparison is always to AI. Well, AI runs an offense that we all complain about, right, and that is Larry Brown who chose that offense. The offense goes through AI, not Snow. McGrady runs a quarterback role offense with high wing PnRs and ball domination (and that is last year's Coach of the Year), and so does Paul Pierce. Winter and Jackson complain about Kobe running an offense they don't like, too. Both Jordan and Kobe have said they don't like that offense. The difference is that AI, Jordan, Kobe, Pierce, McGrady are all better at making their teammates better, and they all play more consistent defense, including the latter 4 playing excellent defense. Why are we to believe moving SF to the 2 and getting an MCE-level PG would change how much SF plays quarterback, or plays it more efficiently? SF just flat out needs to learn how to do it better, and how to make players around him better. IF he does that, our problems are solved, and he can score better from the PG position. The Philly, Celtics, Orlando, Lakers-watching-Kobe way isn't the way I like to play basketball (the Be-Like-Mike way), but they run it better than Francis, and it is being more realistic to admit that Francis will still play that way, than to assume a middle-class PG will all of a sudden turn us into the Sacramento Kings. Bringing in a middle class PG is not going to hide SF's shortcomings, except on fastbreaks, assuming the PG can run them any better than Moochie and assuming Francis will defer the fastbreak to him. Guys like AI, Pierce, Kobe, McGrady, Francis are at their best initiating the offense, because their threat to drive and their ability to get to the line is what they are. They all actually run very similar plays right now, under an assortment of coaches, and so does Stackhouse, Carter and Finley. The only difference is that SF is running the plays against PGs. That gives Steve his advantage. His midrange has not really proven to have the turnarounds and fadeaways of AI, Kobe, McGrady; Francis just jumps straight up in the air against smaller guys, and he outmuscles them. Against taller and equally strong SGs, can he do it, especially at times when you'd want him to take over from the SG position. Now, combine this with SFs ability to defend PGs, much less SGs. And spare the excuses of zones ... Steve can't stop many PGs right now, with zones. The best scenario is we'd get a superior fastbreak and more and more of the offense would initiate through Yao Ming. I believe more can initiate through Yao Ming with SF as PG, anyhow. The worst scenario is SF's offense has more problems against the plethora of SG defenders out there, and he actually becomes less effective, especially at crunch time...plus his defensive problems would get amplified. If Francis had Kidd/Payton's defense or had AI's speed or had Kobe's turnaround J, then I'd say he could play SG. But he still would need to make players around him better; otherwise, imo, he is more valuable in a trade, if you believe the Steve-as-quarterback experiment is over.
Controversy! IMHO, I don't know if that experiment is over, but the buzzards may be circling over it.
CD needs to send Cat and Steve out to LA this summer and convince Lamar Odom that this is where he needs to be. He wont be able to command the big bux b/c of injury so we can sign him to a reasonable deal. There was rumor last year that the Clips were going to move Odom to the point b/c of his distribution skills and his handles. At 6'10'', he is the prototype 3 aside from a consistent long-range shot. I dont know what the Clips plan on doing with Lamar, they can match any deal he gets this summer but we definitely have to go after this guy. Steve/Mooch Cat/Hawkins Odom/Rice/Nachbar EG/MoT/TMo Yao/Cato
hp, I have tried to explain, but people don't want to hear it. To some fans, everything is labels. Move Steve to shooting guard and the offense runs like clockwork. Changing what you call him doesn't change anything unless he isn't dominating the ball. I don't see Steve giving up the ball to Eric Snow either. The best thing to do is give the ball to Cat to initiate the offense. Watch when Cat brings it down, it almost always starts with a pass. When Steve brings it down, it almost always starts with him dribbling in front of his man between his legs. If Steve can't be a distributer, don't trade away the Cat for some can't shoot player who has no chance of running the offense and causes weird scrambling defensive switches on every possesion, just trade Steve. You will get a lot more for Steve anyway, and he really can't do much more from the 2 than Cat, not enough to offset his defensive deficiencies. Trade Steve and Griffin for Brand, Dooling, and a pick.
You know, you started out OK, but then you suggested that Cat initiate the offense... You're as clueless as the rest of us. heypartner's point, IMHO, was that if Steve is going to be the focal point of the offense regardless of position, he needs to do a better job of putting his teammates in better positions to contribute. In other words, if the offense is going through him, he has to do a better job of creating better scoring opportunities for his teammates. If the answer is 'No' and the offense is better ran through Yao, he really has no role on the team and could be traded to fill other needs. Can't say that I disagree with that sentiment on 2nd thought. But I still think Francis at SG is worth a try. We're at Year 4 and counting, and Francis the PG is still stuck in 'Neutral.' I'd hate to give up the kind of talent Francis has without trying anything and everything, but its all about results. Feel free to correct me.
StupidMoniker, I don't mean to sound like I want a change regarding Steve--in position or trade. I just want to make that clear. imo, Steve is playing the classic playmaking SG position right now, and he just needs to learn to be more efficient at it. Like you say, calling him a 1 or 2 is insignificant to Steve just learning to make his teammates better, and that is pretty much what Larry Brown says about AI, and Jackson says about Kobe. Afterall, Jackson named one of his kidney stones "Kobe," because "it wouldn't pass."
The Clips would take Mobley because he has a reasonable contract and is buddies with Odom and might get Odom to re-sign there. Maggette will be signed as a restricted free agent by the Nuggets; the Clips won't match it. It's a matter of time before Q also leaves. Actually I think Odom would leave, if he's smart. Sign a one-year offer then get the hell out of Dodge. How much would Utah offer Miller? He won't get the max, but Utah has to overpay players to get them to play in scenically boring Salt Lake City. Would a sign and trade for Miller (forget Cato: Sterling won't pay that contract) give him the contract he wants? Or would Utah outbid us? The Clips can let Miller walk, so I don't think they'd match.
I still don't know how Steve Francis can guard the bigger and taller shooting guards. They will just jump right over him and swoosh!!!! It's too easy. It won't work on defense...and you say many don't get opportunities to post up.....well when the coach sees that it's Kobe Bryant against Steve Francis....they will get the ball to Kobe every single time. But it is still good to experiment...DON'T GET RID OF MOBLEY!!!
u know what? why dont we just KEEP Francis at the PG spot....i mean there arent that many good point guards in the league and he's considered top 5....sure he's a good scorer but so is Payton, Cassell, and Marbury (Arenas too)....i mean if we move francis, we go from our PG spot being one of our strongest positions to one of our weakest....i think we should just let francis grow more and used to the position.....he's doing a pretty decent job already
You are certainly correct about the defense. The taller players hsould be able to post him up all day long. However, as ahs been mentioned, the reason Francis is such a bad defender is because despite his amazing athletic ability, he jsut can't seem to keep the quick PG's from passing him. That in itself creates havoc with our defensive plans. The SG are at least slower, and Francis would be able to guard them just as poorly, imo, at least causing more mid range to perimeter shots versus layups from the penetration dish-offs that usually happen.
Who was the last Rock 1 to be a D stopper? The coach has always believed in funneling the ball into the shot blocking 5. Doesn't work, does it?
The idea that Francis's poor defense is better suited for "slow" SGs than "quick" PGs is a contrived notion, imo, as if all the PGs beat Francis because they are much quicker than SGs. If that were true, then we should just have Mobley defend them now, while Francis defends the "slower" SGs. Mobley is faster than Francis, afterall. regardless, there is no proof that Francis's speed is quick enough like AI/Calvin/Mobley to beat SGs enough to gain more separation required to make up for the lack of height. Mobley also has super wingspan. Not to say Mobley is better, but rather just faster to make up the height disadvantage. SF will often be giving up 3 inches, whereas now he often has a 3 inch advantage. That's a 6 inch turnaround. How is SF going to make up for that? His speed must gain much more separation then, because his straight up jumper is at more a disadvantage.. It isn't a given that SF can score equally against taller and more athletic defenders. His offense could easily become tougher, not easier as Calvin seems to think.
I guess I need to make better use of paragraphs. I only meant for the first couple of sentences to be about my agreement with hp. The rest are my own conclusions. I don't understand the problem people have when I mention Cat initiating the offense. You guys act like he doesn't do that at least part of the time now.
Heypee, You're absolutely right but this isn't about Steve. It's about how his backcourt mate compliments him, and a Guard that has PG skills compliments him better than a G that has SG skills (Mobley). Steve will play the same next year, he'll just have someone playing alongside him making the game easier for everyone, doing the things a redundant Francis/Mobley combo can't do. BTW, Since when is Andre Miller not realistic? Andre Miller hates the Clippers, and the Clippers hate Andre Miller. They're looking for a deal to get him out of there. About Eric Snow, yes, he's surely less attainable than Miller, but Larry Brown is leaving, and you never know what a new head coach's plans are. About the cap question, no matter how far under the cap Utah are, Clippers can match it and go higher. If I'm not mistaken, no team (regardless of cap positioning) can offer a player more money than the team that holds his bird rights. Gary Payton should be our #1 priority, and he's available IF we convince him that we can contend. Otherwise, watch him pair up with Kidd in Jersey or San Antonio. But honestly, I think we can bring him here. We can give him the money he's getting for the next 3 years, so that by the time Ming's extension kicks in, he's gone.
BTW, I don't think Steve loses 3 inches. If Steve is 6'3, then we would be assuming that the average SG is 6'6, which is not true. The average SG is barely 6'5. But then again, Steve Francis is barely 6'3. If Steve moves to the 2, then he won't have to defend 2's, because the PG we would get (hopefully) would be able to defend 2's (Payton, Snow, McInnis).
I guess if really did move....which he isn't going to...to shooting guard..then we would just have to gamble and hope that the shooting guard cannot shoot that night... That's why the 76ers are screwed. They have 6 power forwards...and no centers. Shaq just dominated. And then they have a bunch of short guards and forwards...and Kobe easily scored. It isn't going to work.... BUT GARY PAYTON OR JASON KIDD OR ANDRE MILLER WOULD BE LOVELY. It is impossible to get them though... And I still do not want to get rid of Cuttino Mobley. Also...does Andre Miller have any playoff experience?
