Francis has to go for this team to win consistently

I totally agree. I mean enough already with give him until then end of the year after year BS. I mean if we could get a decent player(s) for him and I wonder who would want him and in return for who? We are going to need at least another superstar player if Stevie is gone.

 

This is ludicrous.
1) How can you say Boki quit? That is a very big acusation. I saw Boki tried but could not keep up with Bibby. How many times did u see Steve lose his man? Did his teammates chew him out?

2) Getting fired up and not accepting anything less than 100% from his teammates? That's the coach's job. How about not accepting anything less than 100% from oneself?

 

Coming in late on this thread, but I thought it was a great game. The Rox held their with arguably the very best team in the league up until the last quarter. this was a great game to see exactly where the Rox rate with the top tier teams. They traded baskets with the Kings for over 3 qtrs, answered many of their runs with some of their own, and continued to improve on their low-post game.

Inexperience in playing together and mental mistakes cost them the game. Last year compared to this year they are doing very well, and I am pleased with the improvement that they are making. when they keep dishing it to Yao, and he scores over 20, then they are very hard to beat.

 

Talk about hating!

 

Can anybody name atleast 5 games out of the 40 something total games this season when you actually enjoyed the way Francis played???

I can only name none!!!

I hate to turn my back on the guy, but we've taken all the time we could stand...we've watched all the isolation we could stomach....tick...tick...tick...TIME'S BEEN UP!!!

At this point getting complete value for the trade is not important...All we need is someone who can get Ming the ball, hit his own shots at a decent %, and not turn the ball over ever other possesion.

LETS GET HIM OUT OF H-Town

 

A basketball is 48 minutes long. Considering that Yao is only good for about 20 to 25 of those, what are you going to do the other half of the game when YM is on the bench with an oxygen tank?

 

I cannot believe the absurdity of the content of this thread.

Even IF it were true that Francis is no longer a match for this team, now that Ming is the focus of this team, and we need players who are complimentary to him, if we are to go to the Finals, that does NOT mean he's not a great player and person, and worthy of respect.

I love Steve's character, his gym rat passion and love for the game, his loyalty and excitement about Houston. He is very mature for his age, and has character, which is hard to find in the NBA. His athleticism and talent is amazing, and potentially ground breaking. People across the country love him so much, they voted him to be in the all star game. This is quite the honor, regardless if someone thinks someone else is having a better year. A Rocket is considered by the rest of the country as the one they want most to see play the last 3 years at PG. We should be proud!

I remember when we didn't have anyone in the all star game at all. Now you guys are insulting him and ragging on him on an absurd level. I'm personally offended as a Rocket fan. I'm embarrassed by the fact, that Stevie probably comes to this site occaisionally and has to read all this tripe.

SOME people (and you know who you are) only feel they are valuable when they insult or put down someone everyone else respects ... like this somehow makes them somebody. The insecurity in this thread is just flat embarrassing.

Actually, I agree, that he is not a well-trained PG. He got started late, and never was any place longer than two years before he came here. His insistence that he wanted to play the PG position, is why he plays it, rather than risk losing him, as the Grizzlies did. Once he got here, Rudy was not a teaching coach, like a Larry Brown, so he just developed, without very needed training and coaching ... but, he flourished and has gone to the All Star game 3 years in a row.

I have commented on his "not getting it," or his lack of basketball IQ, even stooping down to a comment of Francis and Mobely being "Dumb and Dumber" in terms of court awareness, and intelligence for the game, but I also think he's an amazing talent, and an incredible individual that almost any team in the league would love to have. He's unique.

I remember Pistol Pete, when people criticized him so much, yet he led the way to the whole new style that now dominates the NBA, and has made it FanTastik. I have wondered if Steve wasn't going to be a unique individual who might create a whole new prototype. But, he hasn't, at least yet. And, now we have a coach who is forcing him to play a traditional point guard position, if that is going to be Francis' choice of positions, and he's having a real tough time adjusting.

Would he better on another team, like Chicago, following MJ? I wonder about that, I admit. I'd be pretty tempted to trade him for talent that is more the age and peaking time of Ming, since we've lost Griffin, such as a Francis/Cato for Curry/Chandler/Robinson/Williams/Hinrich type trade, if they would ever entertain such a thing, (not saying they would), getting a star and a solid center in the Eastern conference, who could put fans in the seats and go to the playoffs, while unloading some bad contracts, injured players and ones they aren't willing to wait for. We might be able to delay our rebuilding plans a bit, and let the young guys mature at a similar pace as Ming. But, it would have to be something THAT significant. We'd have to get talent for talent, perhaps taking a risk, so that both teams have players that fit better for each, achieving each team's agenda. Steve is an incredible talent, has been loyal to Houston, and deserves our respect. He does not deserve the trashing he is getting on this board, and especially not in this thread.

Shame on you Dakota for this thread. I don't always enjoy when you get too reactive with your posts, but generally I read and value your posts, and have a respect for you as a poster. This one is beneath you. And many of the rest of you guys who are just venting, making it hard to respond intelligently, providing a balance. This is offensive to many of us, and we hope that its not how readers of this board think that most Rocket fans think. Chill out. Much of the time, it seems the best solution is just to ignore these type rants, hoping that by not posting in them, they'll die, but I felt I had to say something, so that the rest of the public who reads these threads knows this isn't the way many of us readers actually think. You may forget we are in a public place, especially during this All Star week, when Rocket players are getting such attention.

I did a post recently where I openly lost confidence in CD, and I regret it, so I can't point fingers without some pointing back at myself. I wish I could have retracted the thread after someone pointed out my lack of objectivity (love having the edit feature now, as a contributing member).

But, please get a grip, and get back to readable posting the rest of us can respond to.

 

Very nice post, Sherlock.

I just wanted to point out that close to the end of last season, Francis said that he wanted to play shooting guard this year. Somehow nobody brought this up again.

 

Sherlock, you do realize this is a Basketball BBS, not a 12 step program, right? If the fans don't speak their mind about this team, nothing will change. We've already seen the Rudy CONSERVATIVE APPROACH. It wont work with Francis.

We need a PF(Cato Bench), and a PG (Unknown Player). And move Francis to the SG (Mobley Bench). If we don't do these things, we'll just languish (slightly above average team, never great). That's a resonable change without trading Francis.

But let me tell you...I'd trade Francis AND Mobley (Although, I like Mobley's game) for Melo straight up.

So, not all trades are out. But we can make some roster moves without trades for the time being.

Our goal should be a 70% winning percentage. That's a 58-24 season. And nowhere is it written that we can't strive for a 60-22 win season in the next few years.

Sorry, but having a 53 win team isn't what I call a "elite team." And that shouldn't be "acceptable" by anyone, just for the sake of "being nice to Francis."

 

When did you start working for the Nuggets?

 

I agree 100% Rockets need to trade Francis. He is no leader, he tries to do to much then he always blows it.

 

Didn't you even read my post? Melo happens to be a excellent rookie player that also happens to play for the Nuggets. If, Melo wasn't on that team, then your "When did you start working for the Nuggets?" statement wouldn't apply, now would it?

It's about the PLAYER, not about a particular team. That's how trades go, you know? Knicks, Pacers, Nuggets, Golden State...etc...trade players to the Rockets, and the Rockets trade player to those teams....

You know?

 

I think Pimp ment that the trade is drastically in favor of the Nuggets and the Rockets would be getting screwed royally.

 

Ah, I see....well, that's why I stressed the word(s) "AND Mobley." Meaning that I think that BOTH players equal ONE Melo. Heck, if the Nugs were silly enough to take JUST Francis for Melo, we'd get the best out of that deal. But, as good as Melo is developing, I'd throw in Mobey just to make sure the trade went through (Hell, maybe they'd throw in Chris Andersen). The upside of *getting Melo* is too good compared to *losing Mobley* with the deal.

As far as the Rockets "getting screwed royally..."

Look at this...

PG: MJ (until we get a replacement)
SG: JJ
SF: Melo <---more valuable than you think
PF: MoT
C: Yao

It's important to recognize the advantage (talent wise) that ONE SINGLE player gives you. It changes everything. And it improves the team as a whole more than two good players. It would be just too good to pass up.


What I'm saying is that a rookie "Magic, Bird, Isiah, Jordan" is better than a 6th or 7th year Pippen, Kobe, Barkley."

You just don't pass up the chance to take those type (leaders) of rookies.

 

DavidS ... I have no difficulty discussing logical trades and ways to build our team to championship caliber, which, I agree, is not what we have now. That is why I expressed my dissappointment with CD in another thread.

(BTW, funny 12 step comment.)

The problem I've had, is unnecessary ripping of the players, especially Steve Francis. When posters just blast and panic post, its difficult for others to discuss, as a fellow poster, and brainstorm solutions to problems we face. Discussion, brainstorming, expressing frustration and disappointment is all fine, even throwing out all sorts of trade threads, but when a thread is just blasting, a poster looks stupid even responding to it.

I have no difficulty discussing the pros and cons of each player, their weaknesses, etc. In fact, I love that. We've done that for years here. I just have a hard time with all the personal insults, sweeping and dichotomic statements, especially after a loss, that don't lead to rational or even dynamic conversations. How does one respond to a vent that is full force blasting? That's not a discussion.

Other posters with a different opinion don't respond, hoping the thread will die, and then those venting threads dominate the board, making it look like that's what most fans think on this BBS. I don't believe that to be the case. After awhile, good posters quit posting, and the board deteriorates.

If we did want to trade someone, and that team came to read our board, no one would ever want to trade for any of our players, the way we talk, especially when we vent.

Just because someone isn't a current match for our team, or is going through a learning curve, or a bad stretch, doesn't make them a bad person or player ... maybe not the right one for this team ... and that should legitimately be discussed.

Everything changed when we got Ming, and Griffin self-destructed. Now we have some more rebuilding to do, IMHO, if we want to go to a championship again. I don't believe this current team will make it, either, although I think we can get to the playoffs, even into the top 4 or 5. But, we have good players, who can be trained or traded for other players that WILL make that team, if we don't panic, and make shrewd deals ... at least that is my hope. I'm glad the Rocket's management is not panicking like some of you, or we'd have a much bigger mess on our hands.

 

True. Just don't forget that a lot of those type of posts (the angry one-liners) are post that are just that, "vents." And in reallty, they aren't meant for any real discussion.

Or, rather. Rebutter, beware....

 

Why do people think Francis is a good player just because he voted into the all star game? Everybody here knows what kind of player he is, and I think it's starting to spread around the league that he isn't all that.

Did anyone even look at the number of votes he got, I think it was less than a million, the least of all the starters in the all star game.

 

Why do some people insist that the rockets trade their best player because he's been in a slump. Last year it was Cuttino Mobley. A lot of people are eating their words this year.

 

At least he tries at every game and every minute, wussy yao tries for a minute and if it doesnt go his way he becomes a big sissy the entire game.

 

How dare you talk about trading SF. He had one GREAT game.