Good PGs make those around them better, very good PGs make their teams better and win. Stevie has done neither. I submit his NBA career as evidence.
Who cares? So Finley gets the call. He'll get VERY limited PT, and come Olympics time, he'll be replaced by a healthy Kobe.
So winning is the pretext now? So that's why Elton Brand is on the team for the second year in a row, huh? He's carried his Bulls and Clippers teams over the years, and I guess that's why Andre Miller made it last year too after all that success in Cleveland, and why Mitch Richmond made it those years he was toiling away for mediocre Kings teams, and who can forget Raef LaFrentz' leadership in Denver when he was picked. Sorry, that doesn't fly. Your criticisms of Francis do have some validity, but are no less valid for many other equal or inferior players that have been selected in the past.
He didn't make the team two years ago better. Tell me, before the season began, how many wins did you expect that team to have?
What player (other than Franchise and Cat) had a good year that year? Noone, Steve only makes himself better (not the best attribute for a PG to have). Please back up a good year by any other player by showign their career averages as well. But I know last year with the talent we had (Steve, Cat, Yao should have been a playoff team, no questions asked. Stevie is a great stats player that has no idea how to win (at this point in his career)
So now you hope that Stevie lives up to the NBA greats of "Andre Miller, Elton Brand and Raef LaFrentz"? Wow those are pretty lofty expectations. If he is the "FRANCHISE" why don't you compare him to other Great players, you know the Shaq's, Duncan's, MJs, Bird's and Magic's of the world. Until you do that please do not refer to him as the "Franchise".
I'm simply talking about the players who were selected to the National team over steve. This is not a debate about Stevie and Magic and Jordan, because there is no debate, even Steve wouldn't claim that he is in their caliber, much less me.
Mo Taylor had a good year as evidenced by his ridiculous contract. Moochie Norris had his best year as evidenced by his. Hakeem had a last good run before he finally gave out. The only player who sucked was Shandon Anderson, who never did anything as a Rocket. And again, before the year began, how many games did you expect that team to win.
Who cares! This is good for Steve! He can rest! And improve his skills! Gives him more time with JVG. Let Finley go! Make him more tired next season..
i agree on SLA. that gives more time for stevie and jvg to work on each other and for stevie and the rest of the group to adjust to van gundy's system. but its sad that they might pick finley over a calibur player like stevie.
*lol* How old are you? What does his nickname have to do with anything? Glen Robinson is "Big Dog," should ppl stop calling him that or drop the 'Big' and just start callin him "Dog" b/c he isn't an all-time great? So you don't call Steve Francis the Franchise anymore...*lol*...who cares, man? And how can you even compare Francis to MJ, Bird, and Magic? That's not fair to those player or him. He isn't even in his prime yet and u already want to start comparing him to three of the greatest players to play and two who will go down as probably in the top 20 (Shaq and Duncan) of all-time greats. Look, the whole Stevie Franchise thing was just given to him...in fact, didn't he say he doesn't even like the name too much, but has learned to live with it? It is the closest nickname u could give him to go with his actual name Steve Francis.
Exactly. I think Francis is already working out for next season as we speak (if I read in the chron correctly).
Mo Taylor in 2000-1 average 13 pts/game playing with Franchise. His career average is 13 ppg. He really helped him out. Moochie Norris averaged 6.6 ppg in 2000-1, his career average is 6.2. So expalin to me again how Stevie makes other players better?
Prolly a lil older than you, but that's a different story. His nickname has nothign to do with it, it's simply so many people on this board believing that Stevie is a great player. Let em explain it to you: 1. Stevie is a great athlete 2. Stevie is not a great b-ball player And no it's not fair to compare Stevie to MJ, Magic, Bird, Shaq or Duncan because they were good enough early in their careers (before their primes as you said) to not only make the playoffs but to win Championships. Stevie is happy to score 20 everynight and hang out with his buddy Mobley.
That's kind of expected when you're a professional athlete, to work out in the off season. I heard the same story after year 1 when Stevie and Cat went to watch the finals and it really "inspired" them to take their games to the next level.
Say what you want about how smart they play, but if half the players on this team played with the heart and passion of EITHER Francis or Mobley, we would have made the playoffs last year. And how could you possibly say that Francis isn't a good bball player? Are you trying to tell me that a good "athlete" would be able to give his kind of performance just by having a good vertical and being in great shape? If that's the case, I know a lotta people that'd make it great in the NBA right now... that's absolutely ridiculous. Stevie IS a great player, in fact, he's the only great player we have. I disagree. Finley this year was surrounded with a monster of a backcourt, so it would be a fatal error for anyone to ever double-team him (unlike Steve - Mobley is good, but they had no bench), and in some cases he had to be left wide open when others were double-teamed, or if say... a certain player was told by his coach to double team the ball. Yet despite that, he just barely put up better numbers from the field or from the 3pt line as Steve. I agree he's a better shooter, but not by a lot. Francis' ability to shoot when he's not the main concern on the team was demonstrated in the All-Star game. If a "good shooter" is all you're looking for, then Francis can fit the bill ALMOST as well as Finley. Also, I disagree that a good shooter is what is the most important thing for Team USA. I think someone with the athletic ability of Steve would rip the competition apart with his drives and his speed and his ups. BTW, Steve CAN indeed pass... very well in fact. His turnovers come off the dribble.
1. Passion- Bring in 5 guys from the CBA and there you would have passion. Granted Stevie has fun while he is palying but he plays DUMB. Just compare his Assist to TO ratio vs. other PGS. He is at (near) the bottom. We have tried for several years to get players aound Stevie and Cat and bottom line is noone likel playing with them because they don't pass the ball. Dream wanted out, Shandon Anderson wanted out, Barkley has criticized them on TV, and they just don't get it. 2. Yao (IMO) has a much bigger likelyhood to be great than Stevie. Maybe Stevie could be a great SG but he is not even a good PG (he scores more than most pgs, but gets less assists and more turnovers). 3. The NBA is full of good athletes who are not good players. Most of the good players (guys who can do the fundamentals like pass and shoot and usually these good basketball skills lead to being on winning teams) are coming out of Europe now (like the Larry Birds, Magics, Isiahs who could pass, shoot, adn do al the intangibles). Those guys play the team game. Stevie (and lots of others) just use their athletic ability to score. They don't know how to help their teammates, they just run around trying to be on ESPN hi-lites.
Rebuttals: 1. What's your piont? I never said passion alone could get you wins, but there were many players on the Rockets who had the talent, but not the passion. Had they perhaps wanted it a little more, tried a little harder on the offensive end, maybe something coulda happened. I don't know, but I just didn't see a lot of them wanting it as bad as Stevie or Cat. Barkley criticized them, yes, but Olajuwon loved playing with them, he didn't want out because of Steve and Cat. I don't know where you heard that. He had the highest praises of their ability and their potential, and even Barkley has even admitted several times that Steve is a great PLAYER, and the best on the Rockets. 2. That's just blatantly, factually wrong. Francis is among the top 35% or so among POINT gaurds in the league in APG. His turnovers come more off the dribble than from passing, as well. This doesn't make it ok, but it just means that he's trying a little too hard. 3. That is such a hackneyed, unoriginal, unthought-out argument that it's not even worth a rebuttal. That's BS. NOBODY in the NBA plays with the idea in mind of explicitly trying to be on a highlight-reel. Francis didn't even try to be very flashy at all this year from what I saw of him. He tried to be good. What you said is so stupid, it's almost racist. Steve wants to win, that's the whole point of the PASSION argument. He has both the ability and the skills because athletic ability alone won't get you anywhere. The bottom line is, you take Francis off our team, and we'd've had ourselves a .250 record last season. And that, plus his ability (I think) to play better when surrounded by stars, is what merits his place on Team USA.
