I was definitely not being sarcastic. I would trade anyone on this team for Miller with the exception of Steve and possibly Griffin. I'd trade Cat and whoever else for Miller in a split second. There is no question in my mind that Steve would be a better shooting guard than point guard and also no question that he'd be a better shooting guard than Mobley. Incidentally in their only meeting this year I believe Miller outscored Francis, out-assisted him, out-rebounded him, and also won the game. One game isn't conclusive proof of anything but Miller did show he can hold his own against Steve.
Agreed 100%. One thing the Rockets really lack is a solid, consistent contributor. Miller would provide that for us. As well as the fact that I believe Steve will never be the player he can be if he is counted on to play PG instead of SG, a position that would seem to be more natural. Francis doesn't really do a good job of involving teammates, other than Cato. I wish Cat were 6-6 or 6-7, so that we would just be able to slide him to SF, but unfortunately he's only 6-3.
I think Andre won the battle, but I think Steve may have outboarded him, regardless. Who won that game anyway?
i think andre miller has the potential to be as good as jason kidd. Jason didnt do anything his first few years in Dallas and they had some pretty decent teams. Andre doesnt have the Cavs in the playoffs right now. but he is as good as Jason is this time in Jason's career, in other words the Dallas Jason Kidd. You trade Steve (more of a Marbury type player) for Miller (who i feel has the close potential to be a Jason Kidd type player) and i think you become a playoff team. thats why my analogy works. im not saying Miller is as good as Jason Kidd. But i think he will be or at least close to it. thats what i was thinking.the team would gel better with andre rather than steve.
First of all, I disagree that Francis would be a better shooting guard than Mobley. Mobley's a better dribbler, better mid-range shooter, better off-balance shooter, better 3-point shooter, better finisher, better scorer. Second of all, you guys are really funny. The only way a player like Andre Miller can help a team is if he is surrounded by good players. Primarily good big men, who can run the court well. The Rockets don't have any big men in that category, which is really what they need to focus on acquring. Andre Miller will not help Rockets make the playoffs. Third, I'm sure most of you try to watch every Rockets game, and you watch maybe a few Cavaliers games. Its a lot easier to point out the negatives of a team you follow than it is to point out the negatives of a team you rarely watch. Do you reall think you know enough about Miller to trade an All-Star for him. I sure as hell don't think you do. If you did watch every Cavs game, you would probably notice that Miller has games, like he did last night, where he goes 3-9 from the field and turns the ball over six times. But you see, you don't really know things like that because you don't really follow the Cavs.
DaDakota, i agree that he may be better now but believe me, steve is better then this. I think steve knows this season is over and just wants to see what he can do. I think what this team needs is a big man scorer, (EG when he develops) so Francise has a big man to give the ball to. Just wait till next year, when the team is healthy, just wait
Shareef doesn't make a difference? I can't beleive someone said that especially someone who knows anything about basketball. If not mistaken, someone said the same thing about Brand when he was in the east. Truth be told, if you have any kind of low block/big man, your chances of winning are greater than a bunch of dribble between your legs guards. Good big players are hard to come by, but small guys are a dime a dozen. Trade SAR for Steve and we'll be closer to the playoffs than with him. In fact trade Francis for any good big man and you're in the playoffs or closer to it than this. A big man allows you to play simple, to free basketball.
I think what he was referring to is that the Hawks sucked last year without Rahim, and they suck this year with Rahim. So no, he hasn't really made a difference in Atlanta. What makes you think he'll make a difference in Houston? On the other hand the Rockets are around .500 with Francis, and around .000 without Francis. Who has made more a difference?
I AGREE WITH YOU 100% DaDakota. I have been saying this for 1 and 1/2 years now. Francis is either a crappy PG or a good SG. BRING ON ANDRE MILLER!!! Or, KEEP FRANCIS, BUT MAKE HIM PLAY SG!!! If Steve doesn't like it, too bad. P1st, S2nd
Clutch, Sign and trade Francis. If he wants to try to pull a Vancouver again, let him look like a b _ _ _ h if he wants to. As a GM, I could give a rat's a - s if Steve and Cuttino are lovers. The poin tis that we lack leadership at the PG position. IMHO, Cuttino is playing too good at the SG spot to have him on the bench or to trade him. Francis brings us trade value, and we can use him to get something choice in return for him. If the Rockets really think that we are set in the back court with Francis controlling the offense, where are their heads? P1st, S2nd
DCKid, It is more then leadership, it is playing the game the RIGHT way, getting others involved, making them better, being committed to defense, all of the things that Francis DOES NOT DO !! Francis is an AMAZING individual talent, but he is not a superstar, he makes far to many mistakes, and makes the game of basketball much harder then it has to be. Rudy has designed an offense around Steve, to penetrate and dish...well Steve has yet to learn how to pass correctly. He dribbles into double teams (when everyone from 6th grade on up knows you pass out of a double team), he tries to do the fancy pass too often instead of getting it done, and he can not run a fast break to save his life. There are guys at the YMCA over 60 who run a better fast break then Fancy does. Steve is Style over Substance, and that is just not good as a team leader. The team leader is someone who is ABSOLUTLY committed to winning, and a team leader at PG, is committed to helping set his teamates up in a position where they can be successful..thus building confidence and allowing the entire TEAM to flourish. Too often Fancy gets caught in the air and tosses it out with 2 ticks left on the shot clock. Steve is in his 3rd year as a PG, he SHOULD know better by know, but I am beginning to think we have another Marbury, and not a winner. DaDakota
I just still do not understand the fascination with Miller. I think he's a fine player, but I do not see him ever being on a winning team unless he is that teams third best player. On the other hand, Steve has already proven that he can produce a winning team while being the team's best player. Furthermore, Steve did it in Western Conference, while Miller continually fails to do it in the Eastern Conference. If we want to look more closely at how Miller "improves" the players around him, lets look at the Cleveland Cavaliers progress over the last five years. 1997-1998 The Cavaliers make it to the playoffs with 46 wins. 1998-1999 there was a strike shortened season, but if they kept up their winning percentage for a full 82 games they would've ended up with 36 wins. 1999-2000 Enter Andre Miller. Cavs finished with 32 wins. 2000-2001 Andre Miller's sophmore campaign. 30 wins. 2000-2001 Third times a charm. Currently 25 wins with two weeks left in the season. Andre Miller has not improved that team one iota. In addition, Andre seems like a pretty mild-mannered and easy-going guy. A really nice kid. While Steve on the other hand is much more of a charismatic personality, and quite a bit more outspoken. Which one do you think will make the best leader? Right now, neither of them. But at least Steve has the qualities to become a leader, whereas Miller will never be one. And as far as <i>your</i> definition of a leader, I don't see it describing Andre Miller at all. "Allowing his teammates to flourish?" Do I really need to offer a rebuttal of this? And I'm in total agreement that Steve needs to start making better decisions on the court. But I'm in total disagreement that Andre Miller is the answer to the Rockets problems.
You think Rudy believes Steve is a leader? Read today's chronicle. http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/sports/bk/bkn/1322316 DD
Errr...where in there does Rudy say anything about Steve's leadership? Yeah they played like crap, including Steve, but if you want to infer from Rudy's comments that this is on him, then I think you are trying WAY too hard. You know, in all honesty, I think the Steve haters are the most rabid Rocket fans on the board. And while I hate arguing some of the more non-sensical points they bring up, I don't mind them at all, and you specifically DaDa, because it's obvious that you care, that you are frustrated with the season, and you want to find answers as to why we suck. Steve 'lead' this team last year just fine. We were totally geeked at the start of this season for even better things. That didn't happen and now we want answers, and it's easiest to assume those answers are supposed to come from what's being done on the court. Do you guys understand that if you are a badass, and if there are 2-3 guys in your lineup that can't run with you, it freaking KILLS you? No Dream. No Mo. No Rice (in terms of what we THOUGHT we got in that guy, let along the injury). Mobley on bad ankles for much of the season, let alone Stevie's own problems. I know all of us here on the board like to think we appreciate the game in an old-fashioned, nut-hugging, knee-high, John Wooden kind of sense. But for what Rudy is trying to do, a "conventional" point guard isn't the answer. Steve is special. Not perfect, but special--he is our point guard, and as Clutch said, he isn't going anywhere. So I know you guys are frustrated, but JEEBUS, if you think the crux of the problem is our All-Star point guard, then I would say you care almost too much, to the point where you have become irrational, and can't see the big picture outside of the Rockets' next game. Be patient--I believe next year you'll be singing a different tune.
How much has Mo Taylor played this season? He's on the roster, but not an actualy part of the 2001-02 season team until he plays in a game... DCkid, Kemp was traded after the 99-00 season, Kemp, while being a glutton, was still a very good basketball player at the time. I agree with you, but it is unfair to base his value to the team by comparing past seasons...Trade Kemp, all-star caliber player at the time, for Chris Gatling and losing seasons are inevitable. Dadakota, how has anyone on the Cav's flourished with Miller on the team? Mihm has become a 8 and 5 player with Miller on the team(Very close to Kelvin Cato's numbers)... And Mihm, coming out of UT, was expected to do more. Diop has pretty much wasted away on the IR this season, so you can't really say how he is doing. The only players who have really improved with Miller on the team are Murray, Person, Davis, and Jones. Murray and Person were both solid scorers long before Miller arrived on the scene...Murray posted 3 double-digit scoring seasons before Miller arrived and Person posted 5 before Miller's arrival. Jones has upped his scoring to 8 ppg from about 5 ppg, but if you look his scoring has been on a pretty steady increase dating back to his two seasons in Philadelphia... Davis seems to have become a much better scorer since Miller's arrival... Miller will be an all-star player, but in no way is he a much better, or even better player than Steve Francis.
30,30,25. Ignorance and supposed authority.....what a sad concomitance. The grass is greener complex on this bbs is stronger than I thought.
Miller for Francis? Nah. In a few years, someone will repost this thread and make fun of Dadakota, along with a large dose of "I told you so." Miller came into the league NBA ready. Miller is about as good as he is going to get, in my opinion. Francis will continue to grow and mature, they'll get him some talent (or at least healthy bodies), and he may end up being a spectacular player.
