1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Francis fans need to trust Adelman

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by caffreys_irish_ale, Nov 28, 2007.

  1. cdrive

    cdrive Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    7,472
    Likes Received:
    7,095
    Exactly! I'm not one either, but that is just wrong! That kind of nonsense is the bread 'n butter for contentious writers with a national readership a la Charlie Rosen. Rosen bashes Yao and he has got just as many people applauding as he has shaking their fists. But this guy is bashing on rockets fans to then further bash on Steve ON THE HOUSTON CHRONICLE where the readership consists of mostly all rockets fans.

    Unbelievable. Yet there it is.

    How Sour It Is!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  2. morpheus133

    morpheus133 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,534
    Likes Received:
    180
    Some of you are over emphasizing the nose bleed reference and dismissing the heart of the article. I think the writer's point is that Adelman has alot more information about how his players are performing than the casual fan who considers playing Steve to be a "no brainer". The writer never said it was bad to sit in the nose bleed section. He never said that coaches are never wrong or that we should never second guess them. He merely points out that the coach is trying to play who he thinks gives us the best chance of winning. He points out that it is possible that Adelman is wrong, but it is hardly as cut and dry that Steve is the answer as some of you like to believe.

    The writer then goes on to give good reasons WHY it isn't the no brainer some of you make it out to be. Those include the fact that Steve hasn't performed at an all star level in several years and even when he was an all star we had a losing overall record. He also notes that no other team considered Francis more than a role player either, so it isn't like Adelman is the exception in his assessment of Francis's skills. By the time Steve left his former Eastern conference lottery teams he had lost the starting role at both NY and Orlando. He was paid $30 million to not play for Portland which doesn't exactly have an all star PG either. Then he got beat out by Rafer for the job here, whom many of you consider to be the worst starting PG in the NBA after going in to camp as the favorite. None of that screams hand this man the starting job on a title contender to rescue us from our struggles.

    I readily admit that Francis has played well enough in very limited time to earn more minutes, and I expect he will get them. Maybe he will end up earning the lion's share of the minutes or start eventually, but he doesn't get handed the starting job just because he used to be Stevie Franchise several years ago.
     
  3. rofflesaurus

    rofflesaurus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,655
    Likes Received:
    230
    He isn't bashing rockets fans. He's bashing the "fans" who think they know how to run the team better than Adelman, and rightfully so. Fans bash Adelman for his rotation, and now this guy is bashing them for thinking they know more than Adelman. this is the greatest article i have ever read. :D
     
  4. AggNRox

    AggNRox Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2003
    Messages:
    3,284
    Likes Received:
    59
    this paper didn't address the problem rox has now.

    no one said ra is not smart. at same time, some of fans realized we have troubles. think about it in this way. if we keep using the same starting lineup as the last season, what's the purpose of replacing jvg? with the same starting 5, we won alot games last season. we didn't lose in the regular season. of coz, we failed in the playoff due to the starting 5. hiring ra is we need some new offense strategies. with the same starting 5, the new strategy will work? i have doubts. the strategy needs moving, screening, cutting, and eventually scoring. you have to have players who can make shots when they are open, no matter long-range, mid-range, or layup. except tmac and yao, who else will be able to do that? none in the starting lineup. battier is good at but he spend so many energy on shutting down the best player on other teams. with this starting 5, i don't see any difference whether using jvg or ra's strategy.

    winning games in the regular season is not my concern. w/ this starting 5, they can win alot for sure whether you adopt jvg's strategy or ra's strategy coz the whole league doesn't have tons of elite teams. most of teams are good or average.

    if winning a few games in the regular season is the reporter or ra's ultimate goal, i would be very disappointed.

    of coz, using sf will get over the bump in the playoff? no one knows but it is worth trying. because sf has something we missed in the last playoff, penetration. sf, tmac, and yao have never had a chance to play together, you really don't know how good they could be or how bad they could be. anything coming up now w/o seeing their playing together is on paper not in the reality world.
     
  5. yobod

    yobod Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,569
    Likes Received:
    40
    I understand everything you are saying, and I even agree with it. I am not here to debate whether Steve should start over Rafer....in fact, I'm a proponent of "whoever gets the job done." What I (and I think most people) took issue with, is the fact that this guy didn't write his article with that tone. The tone of his article was incredibly condescending, and insulting to his readers. Saying that the common everyday nosebleed fan needs to put his beer down before trying to assess the job of an NBA coach is not only a lame attempt at the twisted humor that's prevalent in journalism today, but it's just downright ignorant. If this guy knew anything about the demographic of Rockets games, he would know that the "nosebleeds" are where the true fans sit. I sit in the lower bowl, and I can attest to the fact that the people around me don't know squat about the inner workings of the Rockets roster issues. I understand that the meat of the article had some very valid points, and I even agree with them, to an extent. What I don't agree with is tearing your readers down, then feeding them information with the hopes of maybe sounding like you know something about what you're writing about. If you were truly informed about your topic, it would show in your writing, and people would trust you automatically. The insults aren't necessary.
     
  6. bucket

    bucket Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    1,724
    Likes Received:
    60
    Maybe the tone of the article was a little harsh, but his main point was right on. When everyone was just assuming that Francis would play better than the other PGs based on no evidence at all, that was plain stupid.
     
  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    124,573
    Likes Received:
    33,571
    HERE HERE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  8. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    9,852
    Likes Received:
    4,515
    And after this Houston Chronicle article, there STILL are no instances of this phrase in a reputable form of print! War the Chronicle being written by and for people at a 5th grade reading level.
     
  9. cdrive

    cdrive Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2006
    Messages:
    7,472
    Likes Received:
    7,095
    Here's more of Steve Campbell:

    • Time for coach Rick Adelman to shut up people once and for all by giving Steve Francis the playing time it will take to show Stevie Franchise has gone out of business

    • I don't have anything against Steve Francis. I just don't think there's any reason to think there's much tread left on his tires.

    • Why is it, then, that so many people presume to know more than Adelman when it comes to Steve Francis? Adelman watches every move the Rockets make, in games and in practice. And it appears his considered professional opinion is that the Rockets are better off with Rafer Alston, Walter Alston or Rafer Johnson at point guard than they are with Francis.
    The only recent evidence Rockets fans have to go off is Francis sitting on his posterior, nodding off on the bench and blowing off the team huddles. Folks, the Stevie Franchise days are long gone. Were you paying any attention once Francis left Houston?
    Playing on rotten teams that needed whatever production they could get, Francis watched his scoring average fall from 21.3 to 14.4 to 11.3. He suffered tendinitis in his right knee. For the love of Nate McMillan, the Portland Trail Blazers were willing to pay $30 million during the off-season to make Francis go away.
     
  10. jasona88

    jasona88 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2007
    Messages:
    946
    Likes Received:
    2

    Haha that guy needs to get his facts straight...Portland didnt give him 30 mil just to "GO AWAY"...it was part of the trade so Portland could get some cap relief. And So far i think francis has proved him WRONG...the games francis played in proved that he is on par or maybe even better than rafer is.
     
  11. yobod

    yobod Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,569
    Likes Received:
    40
    Thanks Caffrey's. And yes, Fritz is an awesome writer. He posts his articles on the Texans board I am a part of, and they are always entertaining and informing.....and, believe it or not, he doesn't even have to insult the readers! Incredible!
     
  12. poprocks

    poprocks Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,779
    Likes Received:
    0
    First of all this guy conviently skews that stats to make a useless argument for himself. He conviently fails to mention how bad the Rockets were as a team before the 03-04 season which made the playoffs. He also fails to mention that Francis was on the Rockets team that went 45-37 for a .549 record. He also conviently forgets to mention that Francis shot .538 with the Knicks in the 05-06 season from the 3 pt line. Plus his harping on Francis's 11.3 pt average does not even take into account the politics of the New York Knicks or his lack of playing time in generating that 11.3 pt average. Worthless article from an even less talented journalistic hack.


    Francis played hard, meant well, played well during his first go-round with the Rockets. The Rockets went 195-215 in those five seasons, winning one playoff game.

    So even if Francis were what he used to be, his return to Houston doesn't constitute The Second Coming.

    Remember, Francis spent a good part of the final season of his first go-round in Houston with a field-goal percentage on the south side of 40.

    When Francis crept above the NBA's equivalent of the Mario Mendoza Line, he triumphantly told those who had been harping on his shooting to "kiss my (butt).

    Francis might be wiser, but the tradeoff is that he is older. His body isn't nearly as cooperative at age 30 as it once was. Francis went from the Rockets to the Magic to the Knicks, accumulating the sort of mileage that wears the tread off the tires. Saddled with tendinitis in his right knee, Francis averaged a career-low 11.3 points — eight below what he did as a Rocket — in 44 games last season.

    By Adelman's admission, he went into training camp expecting Francis to win the starting point guard job. Francis wasn't in good enough shape to keep up with the (flawed) competition, which means: A) Flush with the $30 million the Trail Blazers paid him to clear up room in the salary cap, he didn't have the drive to get himself in the best shape possible; B) He assumed becoming a starter was a formality; or C) He was as driven and determined as ever, but all the past wear and tear wouldn't allow him to push himself into elite NBA condition.

    Does Adelman's past make him immune to scrutiny? Of course not. It's possible he's wrong, that there's more left in Francis than meets the coach's eye. If so, then Adelman has plenty of company around the NBA.
     
  13. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    42,810
    Likes Received:
    3,013

    um no, you said that I said that adelman doesn't deserve any respect and francis does, unless you can point out where I said that, I'll still accept your apology in advance. thanks

    edit: personally, I've generally refrained from this discussion either way because I don't know what francis does in practice and what kind of shape he is in. I was just referring to the subject of the column, that a certain group of fans are stupid. if you want to call yourself stupid, have it, don't include me in that though.
     
    #53 pgabriel, Nov 28, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2007
  14. solid

    solid Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2001
    Messages:
    20,018
    Likes Received:
    7,149
    Thanks DaDakota.

    Incidently, I emailed the Chronicle my thoughts on the subject. Thanks to Clutch who posted the email address above.

    And frankly, as much as I love watching the Rockets, if the lineup is not adjusted soon, my interest will start to decline. All the excitement with the off season was about giving Yao and TMac more support. I don't really see that happening so far. Rafer got 40 minutes against the Clippers. He had a good game , but, wow, that is the second most minutes on the team.
     
  15. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,978
    Likes Received:
    29,337
    Media is a bunch of arrogant *sses and spend most of their time
    talking down to fans

    If Joe noseBleed wasn't at the game chanting ..
    NO ONE WOULD BE CHANTING
    they would be in the club area smoozing

    Rocket River
     
  16. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,978
    Likes Received:
    29,337
    Does this include the season Francis was out all those games with the headaches?

    Rocket River
     
  17. Patience

    Patience Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2002
    Messages:
    7,688
    Likes Received:
    9,338
    To be fair, Rafer had the second best game of anyone on the team as well. I don't personally have a problem with Adelman playing whichever point guard is playing best on a given night.

    Truthfully, I think Francis should be taking Mike James's minutes, not Rafer's. If James is not hitting shots (which he hasn't since games 1&2), then he brings very little to the table. Mike James dribbling around in circles looking for a gap to jack up a shot is worse than anything Francis does.
     
  18. GKlutz

    GKlutz Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    0
    let francise defense nashi and never double him then we will win ;)
     
  19. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,570
    Likes Received:
    469
    My sentiments exactly, if Rafer hits the jumpers and floaters he plays. If he doesn't go sit down. MJ learns to pass instead of shooting like he's lost his mind. Go sit down.

    I truly believe they are auditioning Rafer for someone. There is no way a reasonable coach would allow him to stay in the game. We're basically play 3 on 5 with Rafer and Chuck in the game together.
     
  20. EssTooKayTD

    EssTooKayTD Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    3,343
    Likes Received:
    73
    There are very few teams that actually have 5 real scoring threats on the court at one time. Chuck makes a better percentage of shots than Rafer, so you are selling him short. They both bring value to the lineup. Albeit, there are upgrades available, it could be worse. They could be completely worthless. I know many might argue that they are, but that's just blind hatred speaking.

    But I agree with you on the first paragraph. Whoever is playing well, play them. If someone is suckin, sit em. If they all suck...well...yeah, what can ya do? hahahah
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now