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France is using its broad suspension of civil liberties to detain environmental activists

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Nov 29, 2015.

  1. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Euro...arrested-24-activists-ahead-of-climate-summit

    A very disturbing quote:

    Apparantly that involves dedicating significant police resources to a community of environmental activists, who have claimed to be pacifist.

    Does the government's claim of "serious public disturbances" hold any salt?

    http://www.theguardian.com/environm...s-put-under-house-arrest-using-emergency-laws

    A first hand account:

    So basically, France is imprisoning people who are regestering for the right to free protest.

    What are your thoughts on this topic, and the balance between civil liberties and the security needs of a nation?
     
  2. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    [rquoter]"These 24 people have been placed under house arrest because they have been violent during demonstrations in the past and because they have said they would not respect the state of emergency," Cazeneuve said in a speech in Strasbourg.[/rquoter]

    Well, sounds like an open and shut case to me.
     
  3. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    I think large, diverse, globally engaged countries have to do and be lots of different things that don't always align with individuals' ideals, philosophies or planned activities at the time.
     
  4. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    So open and shut.

    And wait, hold up, regardless of the back-and-forth here, you're for the fact that the state of emergency is being used to, without any trial, detain people who want to demonstrate and hold them on crimes they haven't yet committed?

    Where does that line of thinking end?
     
    #4 Northside Storm, Nov 29, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
  5. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Do you believe in the right to peaceably assemble?
     
  6. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Yes, I am for this. I don't care what some Green Peace French Chapter senior manager thinks. There are going to be 13,000+ people attending this two week event, and there will be about 7,000 activist and protesters among the scene. 24 misguided individuals should not ruin the event - even if the event itself is misguided.

    There will be hundreds of US government employees and other Americans attending the event - including the president. Their safety should be above the concerns of 24 disillusioned agitators.
     
  7. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    So, just so we're clear:

    You're for the detainment of people who aren't being charged with any crime and who haven't been through a trial
    You're against the right to demonstrate freely
    You "don't care" about the possibility that those under house arrest have had no previous convictions, contradicting what the French government is saying

    What stops you from applying this same logic to protesters anywhere else? After all, any protest at all could be a "threat" to authorities. And you seem to be willing to give them the power to willy-nilly accuse and detain whoever the hell they want.
     
    #7 Northside Storm, Nov 29, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
  8. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    A win for terrorist and a loss for freedom.
     
  9. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    You realize that that kind of authority means the gov't would be able to put you under house arrest for pretty much any reason by simply claiming you were a threat based on affiliation or prior statements even if you had never broken the law?
     
  10. AroundTheWorld

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    These activists are super annoying. Just like the idiots violently protesting the G... summits. One of them is my cousin. I discussed it with him. His line of reasoning doesn't make any sense to me. That said, what went on in Italy where these protesters were met with police brutality was not okay. House arrest for people who have already announced they are planning to be violent, on the other hand...
     
  11. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    That is not what is happening.

    That doesn't mean they expressed they were going to be violent. In fact, one of them registered his demonstration with the authorities (a sure sign that he was planning to use it for violence). They are being detained because they "violated the state of emergency" i.e they are planning to assemble.

    And again, we have not had a trial, so statements like this:

    are worrying to say the least.
     
  12. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Also, one other thing to note, by pushing people and political leaders to move their hands on getting away from the carbon economy, these activists are doing more to combat oil-state sponsored terrorism than most, if not all citizens
     
  13. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine
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    It's a shame. Governments use terrorism as an excuse to curtail the rights they're allegedly trying to defend by combating terrorism. Much like how the US now has free speech zones and such nonsense.
     
  14. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    what exactly are they protesting (or planning to) with regards to this summit?
     
  15. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Government inaction on climate change, one would suppose, "too little, too late".

    http://www.theguardian.com/environm...s-put-under-house-arrest-using-emergency-laws
     
    #15 Northside Storm, Nov 29, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
  16. AroundTheWorld

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    My personal opinion is that climate change activists should rather focus on the more urgent threats in the short term, such as Islamist terror. That's a much more concrete and tangible problem than "climate change" and whether the Maldives might be submerged in 2250.
     
  17. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Leaving aside the very contestable notion that "Islamist terror" is more of a concrete and tangible problem than climate change, you've forgotten that people can contain multitudes, and acting on one cause is probably correlated with acting on others. Not sure how banning freedom of assembly helps with any of that.

    Also: environmental activists are some of the only people calling for the absolute end of funding to oil regimes.

    And how do you want activists to "focus", detain them until they protest for the "right cause"? Do you think what is happening is the right way to go about "focusing protesters"?
     
    #17 Northside Storm, Nov 29, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
  18. AroundTheWorld

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    Purely your assumption.

    Fair point.

    Obviously not - please don't make up a ridiculous strawman.

    No, the intended purpose is for police to be able to guarantee the safety and security of people attending the climate summit, free from the distraction of having to deal with violent protesters, not to tell protesters what to think. But you already knew that.
     
  19. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    I like this line of thinking.

    Lets take it a step further though, since Islamic Terror isn't really an urgent threat, lets focus on the true urgent threats to the US:

    Heart Disease, Cancer, Motor Vehicle Safety, Strokes, and Guns.
     
  20. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    An assumption that was valid in this case, as you acknowledged. Working on environmentalism also involves working against the largest source of funding for state and stateless terror.

    So how do you want protesters to focus with freedom of assembly suspended?

    fixed it for you.

    Again, protests are banned under the state of emergency. The activists in question were not detained for saying they were going to be violent: at least one was detained for merely petioning for the right to a protest, which because of the state of emergency in France, is something you now have to do.
     

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