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Fran Hammering Rockets Again

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Jeff, Apr 25, 2002.

  1. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Member
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    Fran must not watch the Mavs very often. They shoot a LOT 3 point shots, and the reason is because they have 5 great position players that can all shoot them. But they DO stand around the 3 point line waiting to get a pass from someone in order to launch a 3. The difference between the Mavs and Rockets? They hit them!
     
  2. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    I was completely wrong in my worries of defenses taking over the league. The 3-sec defensive rule makes all the difference in the world. My belief is that the Pistons and Pat Riley forced isolation ball from the weaker teams because the NBA office allowed the Knicks to basically grab and hold and intimidate like never before. You had to space them out. That is what the Triangle did. That it what Hakeem did. imo, the league is to blame for Barkley-ball, not the players.

    I feared a return to Piston/Knicks-style defenses made easier with zones. I thought zones would backfire.

    I am amazed how fast Payton adjusted to giving up his low post Barkley game and am glad Utah had to scrap their PnR offense. Their demise early in the season was sweet. Gotta hand it to Stockton though; he got that offense to adjust as the season went on.

    But note: this shows that all these NBA stars can play any game they want. The idea that the 70's was a throwback era of smart, team ball is hogwash. And the 80's wasn't much better after Lakers/Celtics. Yeah, Kelly Tripucka (Mr 22ppg was a team player).

    btw: did you hear what Kenny Smith said last night about team ball...lol. You know how Magic and Danny Ainge were going at it, with Magic, Kenny and Barkley all saying that the 4th Q in the playoffs must be played differently. Ainge was trying to protect Garnett. Ainge said how Magic was nitpicking on a few possession, and Kenny said. "Danny is wrong. Those few possessions are what win or lose games. Kevin cannot pass out of single coverage even if it is a drawn up play by Flip. <b>Rudy would draw up fancy plays for us in the end game, but Dream and I wouln't run them.</b>"

    give me da ball! lol
     
    #22 heypartner, Apr 25, 2002
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2002
  3. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    First off, I know for a fact that the Rockets agreed with much of what Fran posted in some of his columns, however, HOW he wrote it is stinging. If you did that in another city, you might never get inside the clubhouse (well, except NYC) again.

    Besides, the damn season is over. It is OLD news and the guy is a hack on top of it. Obviously someone pissed in Fran's Wheaties and he is trying to exact some kind of journalistic revenge. Writers don't constantly repeat themselves like this and expect to keep a job.

    I said that I did think Dallas was fun to watch. I agree that I wish the Rockets would emulate them. I'm on record as saying that if the Rockets have another bad year, bye bye Rudy and CD. I was bored as hell watching games this year and skipped quite a few toward the end.

    HOWEVER, Fran's stuff is bordering on obsession. I mean, some of these were extremely direct and pointed comments. If this was two months ago or even one month ago, great. But poking an extremely dead horse with a stick two weeks after the season ends is bizarre and smells like something other than normal rhetoric.
     
  4. TheFreak

    TheFreak Member

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    Wow Jeff, do you really think that? What does 'bad' mean to you?

    How long do you think it takes teams to get back to respectability, on average, after a successful era ends?
     
  5. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    I don't necessarily agree with it because I honestly believe that the talent on the floor, not every single offensive or defensive rotation, determines how successful a team is. Dallas has a buttload of talent as do the Lakers and the Kings. I tend to believe that coaches can help make bad teams decent, decent teams good and good teams great but they don't win or lose the games even if they take most of the blame. You can't fire the players.

    I think the Rockets are, honestly, still at least 2 years away from making playoff noise. That doesn't mean they won't make the playoffs just that they aren't really in position to be contenders yet.

    But even Rudy knows that the pressure is mounting. Look at Flip Saunders. A lot of people in Minnesota are calling for his job because of their inability to get past the first round of the playoffs (sounds like the Astros). I think most of us would agree that he is a solid NBA coach.

    I just think that, sometimes, the NEED to win (and, make no mistake, the Rockets need to win because they need to sell seats in that new arena) begins to weigh on a team and if that need can't be satisfied quickly enough, they will move on because the move, in and of itself, generates hope and excitement if not wins.

    It is the nature of professional sports. I don't necessarily agree, but it is the reality.
     
  6. RocketsPimp

    RocketsPimp Member

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    HeyPee, thank you for posting this and the rest of your comments. Another thing about last nights game that Fran missed during one of his obviously many trips to the crapper where I'm sure he writes most of his metaphorical garbage, Dallas played the spacing game perfectly last night launching 22 bombs!! Fortunately for the Mavs they were hitting on all cylinders, making 11 of them, but it provides more evidence to your argument that Fran doesn't like or watch basketball.
     
  7. DearRock

    DearRock Member

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    Jeff, I am sorry. The end justify the means. As far as I am concerned there is no need to sugar coat it or hide from it. I paid for league pass this year and witnessed first hand the problems of the team. Rudy does not sufficiently demonstrate that he has gotten the message. If pounding it over and over again increases the chances that we do not see this nonsense next year and could have our team competing at this time of the year, then keep on trucking, Fran. All those who think it is excessive should understand that all of this is part of the territory. When you lose, expect Fran and Co. to put the grace of god on you in the most melodramatic fashion.
     
  8. DearRock

    DearRock Member

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    Jeff, why are we two years away from making noise in the playoffs? With the exception of the noise being made by LA and Dall, we should be in a position next year to make as much noise as anyone else currently making noise. It is not a reach to expect this team to make the noise being made by Bos, NJ, Utah, Sea, Det, etc. What do these teams have that we do not have? Do not tell me it is talent. There are only two things that I can see. Luck and system.
     
  9. DCkid

    DCkid Member

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    This season, the biggest problem was definitely talent. The Rockets just did not have very much talent on the floor. The bench consisted of SIX unproven players: Torres, Morris, Griffin, Collier, Langhi and Brown. Frankly, all of these players did not even deserve to log minutes in the NBA this season, yet the Rockets had to actually start some of them. Griffin was not much of a help to the Rockets this season at all. He got overpowered downlow and he shot 36% frome the field. NOT GOOD! He definitely will be good, but was simply not ready this season.

    Then we had Moochie and Walt Williams (who missed half the season to injury) as our sixth and 7th man. Just look at that and tell me that's not the worst bench in the entire NBA. The Rockets were so shallow this season it would have been a wonder if they managed to win 30 games.

    Then we had Steve who missed a lot of games and played several with migraines. Obviously, this was the biggest problem this season.

    Cato and Kenny as our primary front court players. I think its safe to say that's probably one of the worst front courts in the league. I don't know where we would have been without Kenny this season, but Kenny and Cato is just not a very scary frontcourt...especially in the west, which is a conference ruled by the frontcourt.

    Looking at all these factors, I would not expects the Rockets to win much more than thirty games this season. And I would say that TALENT definitely was a problem. Remember when they had a full team two seasons ago? They would've made the playoffs this season with that same record. I don't think it would make them a legitimated championship contender, but definitely a playoff team.

    My first hope is that Steve recovers from his migraines. My second hope is we make some acquisitions. And I'm not just talking about a starting small forward, I would like a near complete overhaul of our bench to bring in some proven NBA players...or at the very least some players who can shoot over 40% from the field. Third, Rice and Taylor recover from their injuries. I think once this happens, Rudy's "system" will automatically go a lot smoother. He'll actually be coaching the players he wanted. And then from there he can makes any additional changes to help improve the team. I think this is the only way the Rockets could be a contender next season.
     
    #29 DCkid, Apr 25, 2002
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2002
  10. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    DC,

    The BENCH?

    Who was on Chicagos Bench? Who was on the Lakers bench?

    Bench....LOL

    Come on, this team had way more problems then an unproven bench.

    Granted, they were young, but Francis was in his 3rd year and Cat his 4th....

    Cat IMHO improved, Francis regressed.

    Rudy has to get through to these guys....like Carlisle did in
    Detroit.

    Also, has anyone considered that RUDY is IN on it with Fran? Today's players are VERY sensitive to criticism in the press, and they are more concerned about respect then winning the game.

    Rudy can not call them out for fear of losing them altogether, but Rudy's pal Fran can......

    Get the picture?

    DaDakota
     
  11. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    Why, exactly, does everyone think a columnist SHOULD have an effect on a team. He's a freakin' journalist and not a very good one. They guy probably makes $32K a year to write 3 columns a week for the only newspaper in Houston and we want him using his "influence" to make the team better???

    The only reason anyone would suggest that is because you agree. If you didn't agree, would it be a good thing?

    Hey, if want a journalist running the team, maybe we could get William Saffire. At least he would know how to spell the names of the players.

    :rolleyes:
     
  12. DCkid

    DCkid Member

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    Dakota. I mentioned other problems with the Rockets than the bench. The argument was about becoming a contender. You have to have a decent bench to be a contender. You think the starters play the whole game? When the Rockets put in their bench players they are often putting in CBA talent. How can that not hurt the team? Where would Detroit be without Williamson or Jon Barry? Look at the depth of the Kings, Pacers, Spurs, Mavericks, Raptors and tell me that the bench has no importance. You did point out a good counterexample with the Lakers, but I would say that's one of the few teams that achieves success without a good bench. And obviously we don't have Shaq. And anyways, if nothing else, at least the Lakers bench players can come in and play good defense.

    Also, if the Rockets had some bench players maybe Rudy wouldn't feel the need to play Mobley and Francis fourty minutes every night.

    How can you downplay the importance of having a deep team? I'm not talking about getting sixth man of the year contenders...just some players who have proven that they can be effective in the NBA. Remember also, that players do get injured. It would be nice to have some players on the bench with some skill and experience to fill in for them.
     
  13. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    :confused:

    You are Fran, aren't you?
     
  14. DearRock

    DearRock Member

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    DC, the talent on the roster now is good talent. That's what I was referring to not the talent that was available this year. I just do not want us to use excuses to mask other problems.

    Jeff, no one is asking him to run the team. He is simply there to critique the team, which he is doing an okay job with. The best way to shut him up is to deliver. Fran is not alone. The fact that attendance is way down is further proof that Fran is not in the minority. I have never heard a player come here and say he likes the system. Pippen, one of the top 50, had unfavourable comments to make. Wink wants to stay but is asking for another impact player. He senses something is wrong but would not say it is the system; instead he is asking for an impact player. The team is essentially at the cap limit and he still wants more impact!

    By June 26, some critical decisions would have been made. I think this is the time for all contending opinions and suggestions to be brought to light. It would be nice that by the time the offseason is finished we do not have any new "Drew and Turkey" draft situations or outrageous signings to deal with.

    If they keep this up we will all have to agree that Fran running the team would not be a bad idea afterall.

    Everything CD and Rudy want, Les gives it to them. I think the controls needs to be tightened somewhat, the party is over.
     
  15. pooh222

    pooh222 Member

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    I'm sorry, but until the Rockets get their act together, they deserve all the criticism they're getting. They are professionals and the need to start playing professional caliber basketball not this street ball they've been playing the last few years.

    It's been making me sick watching the playoffs knowing that the Rockets are just as good if not better than a number of the teams in the playoffs this year. I know it's beating a dead horse, but deep down, most people know the MAJOR problem with this team is the system. It sucks. Rudy's done a poor job, and the system is the biggest issue they need to address in the off season. They can bring in all the impact players and stud draft picks they want, until a better system is implented, this team will continue to suck.
     
  16. DearRock

    DearRock Member

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    Pooh, as an example, take Atlanta Hawks. They are going to fire or reassign assistant coach Mahorn. That signals someone is aware of need to shake things up a bit. I am not saying that the Hawks problems are due to him but there is just the need to freshen things up a bit. Now seeing we have a system problem why not change up the staff? Do something!
     
  17. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Why does a coach have to call out anyone in the papers? George Karl seems to have lost his players. Rick Pitino lost his players for doing it. Pat Riley nearly imploded for doing it. What did Scott Skiles accomplish yelling at his players in the media?

    Can't you just call them out in your office or in lockerroom meetings?

    If you have to resort to using the media, you've already lost the players, and it has become an ego thing or blame thing...just a game, and the players know it.

    btw: What these Houston editorialist's did to J.R. Richard is just criminal.

    If it takes the media to make Francis refocus, I don't want him on my team. I want him to want to improve for himself. I want him to realize he can't run any real systems, and he needs to study bball. That is the only lasting (and successful) dedication you find in sports. Players must want it bad for themselves...not the Gipper, not Fran, not me, not you...but for themselves. Rudy is one of the best coaches at explaining that. Use all the logic you want to prove Rudy's coaching staff can't teach, but in the NBA, there is not enough practice time to do much teaching. Players have to bring it to work with them when they are professionals.

    pooh,

    aren't you somewhat contradicting yourself by saying the players are professionals and need to stop playing street-ball, but in the same post imply the Rudy's system is "street-ball." imo, Francis has no offensive system identity, because he started the game late, and only has one yr of Division 1 ball under him. Do you realize he played for 5 different teams (coaches) before coming to the Rockets? What are you going to learn hopping from one team to the next? He needs a lot of coaching, and I'm disappointed in his dedication to learning systems. I don't buy the chicken-or-egg argument saying that Rudy is bad because Francis only runs two plays out there and no fastbreak. It is in Francis's hands to demand a new system, if he indeed can run one. I don't see him complaining much about Mobley's ISOs, so I assume this is what he likes, and the coaches are having problems steering him to expanding.

    Natural playmakers bring systems with them to this level. Guys like Iverson, Stackhouse, Jordan have to learn to run systems through failure, first. Francis is in that class.
     
  18. DearRock

    DearRock Member

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    Isn't Francis running every summer with Nick, Sam and Mooch? He should pick up more with these guys that what he has shown to date.

    I am one of those who believe Francis wants to improve. He is that kind of guy. Afterall he did return to school last summer.
     
  19. francis 4 prez

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    LMAO!!!!!! if that isn't the stupidest thing ever written by someone on this board, then what is.

    btw: What these Houston editorialist's did to J.R. Richard is just criminal.


    little young for that (i guess 20 is too young for that), what exactly did they do.

    I know it's beating a dead horse, but deep down, most people know the MAJOR problem with this team is the system

    pooh if you really think injuries weren't the main problem then i don't know what to say.

    The team is essentially at the cap limit and he still wants more impact!

    the whole league is at the cap limit (except i think bulls and clips), and a lot of the league wants more impact.

    Rudy would draw up fancy plays for us in the end game, but Dream and I wouln't run them

    I love having kenny on inside the nba cuz every once in a while they'll bring up our championships or he'll make a comment about the old days and i just think "hell yeah". btw, i think they were being WAY too hard on garnett. i mean ****, 31 points and 18 boards and playing his ass off on defense and he's a problem. hmmmm. maybe the fourth is a little harder for him cuz his back is hurting from carrying the team the other 3 quarters.

    I think he is HELPING the situation, since no one on the Rockets staff has the sack to tell it like it is, at least Fran does.

    so Da rudy should just come out and say, man francis really sucks at a lot of things, and cuttino, not sure what he's doing most of the time, they both really don't play D at all, DL and JC, why the **** do i even let them out on the court, Rice and Walt are just two sacks of garbage, and that TMo guy is lucky to hit the rim most of the time.

    and what is this sack fran has to tell it like it is, i didn't realize it was that hard to kick a team while it's down. i swear some of y'all think we are the first rebuilding team to ever have problems or have players not fully realizing their potential yet. then y'all cite every exception to the rule and say why can't we be like that. i mean we essentially lost quitten, barkley, drexler, and hakeem for friggin cato and walt. how good do you think we are supposed to be. we already have a solid 1 and 2 and potentially a very solid 4 and we are getting another high draft pick. do you think cat not being the smartest player ever is something new for guys in their 4th years, or francis not being the second coming yet is something new for 3rd year guys, or a team ravaged by injury struggling 2 years after they lost hakeem and barkley is new. no it's not. rudy isn't exactly running this ship into the ground like no one before or since. hell we're probably right around where we should be and now we got lucky and got tankathon 02 to produce a high pick. i'm pleased with the way things are going so far. could they be better, hell yeah, but unless you are the lakers right now they always could. why doesn't he write about how francis is already an all star in his 3rd year and how cat keeps improving or how we have hope with griffin. because it's easier to kick a team when it's down and one that you hate makes it even easier.




    this post brought to you by the STFU Fran Foundation
     
    #39 francis 4 prez, Apr 25, 2002
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2002
  20. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    francis 4 prez: btw: I really like a lot of your writing. Could have fooled me that you are only 20.

    Anyhow, JR Richard is the best pitcher the Astros ever had. We could say Nolan Ryan, but they didn't resign him...soo.

    The story is the Houston media ripped into their best pitcher ever for taking himself out early in games and complaining of illnesses that he didn't know how to describe. Within weeks, he collapsed on the mound before a game with a major stroke, and never pitched again. "When reporters asked about the condition of J.R.'s arm, the doctors replied that they were interested in saving his life, not his arm. "

    imo, this is borderline bigotry the way they treated him in so short a time period. They called him jealous of Nolan Ryan. :rolleyes: And they nearly repeated it when Hakeem was negotiating his extension...calling him a whiner and loafer.

    here's an excerpt from a great tribute page to JR Richard.

    http://www.astrosdaily.com/files/team/richard/richard.html

    And you know what. The reason you haven't heard about this is because the Houston media and many Houston fans feel guilty and no one really ever mentions the event again.
     
    #40 heypartner, Apr 25, 2002
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2002

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