Exactly. That was two years ago. Dallas took a step foward. We took a step backward. If it were a year ago it would seem like Battier might be a piece towards the title, but now the landscape has changed.
Swift is gutless and there have been questions regarding Gay's heart and desire as well.They say Gay is fundamentally sound with a great jumper, spectacular athleticism, potential to be the next T-mac, etc etc. But his desire and heart is questioned. The point is who knows? Gay may become a star in the future or he may become just like somebody we drafted by the name of Eddie Griffiin who was fundamentally sound, had a great jumper, athleticism, etc. If we were in a rebuilding mode drafting Gay would be fine. But we need help and we need help now. Think of it as reloading. We are adding the best of everything our 3 guards provided 2 years ago (Sura, Wesley, and Barry) while not taking any of their negative aspects in Battier. We are getting Sura's toughness, hard nosed play, and defense with size. Wesley's jumper when its on. Which is a thing of beauty. And Barry's passing, saavyness, and natural feel for the game all molded into one 26? 27? year old player that's 6'8 and has HEART and DESIRE to succeed. What's not to like?
Except that Dallas grew up in the playoffs. People mention the changed mentality of Yao, but love to neglect the changed mentality of the Mavericks. Their roster is almost the same, but their attitude is different. I loved watching them cry about the refs in the Finals. But lets face it, they were strong enough to beat the Spurs, and Suns. That's two teams right that we didn't even beat once last season. People also forget how much this Rocket team has changed for the worse. We had a swagger a full season healthy McGrady (Where is the guarantee that'll happen this season?), an explosive Mike James (people act like we have this guy already. Show me a newspaper that confirms that), Bob Sura (retired), Jon Barry (retired), a good hustling 3 point shooter in Scott Padgett (with NJ now), and a surprisingly youthful Mutombo. Mutombo will be two years older this season, and he definitely wasn't the same Mutombo we saw in the playoffs two years ago. You guys keep saying we pushed them to 7 games, but you forget how much chemistry that Rockets team had that is now lost. It's much more than just being one step behind. People say the Rockets will be a championship caliber team next season, and that's why we should have traded Gay. It's wrong. This team won't be a contender next season unless they make a huge, and I mean huuuuuuuuge acquisition this offseason and thats unlikely given the tradeable talent on our roster, and our cap situation. Letting Gay develop wouldn't have hindered the Rockets outcome next season, just as much as acquiring Battier won't effect ours much either. If all our hopes in becoming a contender depend on Battier than I feel even sorrier for the Rockets than I did before. At best this team will be a contender two or three years down the road. And I got news for you. That would have been enough time to watch Rudy Gay come into his own. The only reason Gay was traded is because JVG isn't a good coach. He gets aging veterans with low upside that are easy to coach into his system. He can't coach young talent because its too tough for him. He can't change to the league rules because he thinks the zone sucks. He can't get out of a grind it out style of play because that's all he knows. He can't adapt to the talent he's given, the new (not so new anymore now) rules, and an uptempo style of play. Why is it that his mentor in Riley is able to take risks in acquiring Jason Williams, and Antoine Walker? These were guys with high talent, but equally bad decision makers. Yet he made it work for the Heat. He turned a selfish Walker into a team player. Why is that Riley used zone defense in the Finals and drew up defensive schemes to let his Big Man rest, yet JVG insists on making Yao come out to the top of key on defense, and always running man to man defense that easily gets beaten by quicker athletic teams? I'm sick of JVG. Why is it that Greg Popovich a coach with a similar defensive and offensive philosophy is able to adapt to the rules? Why is it that he was able to deal with the frustrating developing years of Ginoblis reckless play, and Parkers passive play, yet JVG can't go through the same pains in teaching Rudy Gay? Why does he take the easy way out, and not realize the reward he'd receive if he took the time to develop young talent instead of getting old slow footed veterans? As much as JVG preaches tough mindedness he sure does love to go the easy way out. And why should fans be content with it?
Except there's no indication that Gay is a thug or a headcase like Griffin. Gay didn't cost us 3 first round draft picks either. Eddie Griffin was a dissapointing talent, but he still would have been better than JHo and Stromile Swift if he didn't go and try to shoot his girlfriend. Griffin was known for being passive and jacking 3 pointers, but given the cost it took to get him there was more to expect from him. The situation isn't even the same with Gay. When Gay costs the Rockets three 1st rounders, and is a thug for the Memphis then you have a point. Otherwise all these comparisons to Griffin are a copout excuse.
Also more points to put the Griffin comparisons to rest. Yao and McGrady weren't anywhere in the picture at all. Griffin was expected to be a 1st or 2nd scoring option for the future. With Gay he'd be expected to be no higher than a 3rd scoring option and to defer to Yao and McGrady. He'd have much less pressure and expecations to hold. And at worst if McGrady retires early, a second scoring option who would have had plenty of time to develop by then.
I agree Gay is not definite, but Eddie Griffin was not fundamentally sound and he did not have a great jumper. Also, Gay was not regarded as a headcase the way EG was. Gay can help now. He seems more NBA ready than Villanueva and just as NBA ready as the other 7 Uconn Lottery picks in seasons past. All of those guys contributed greatly in their rookie years, I don't see why Gay would be any different.
You are talking about the same reason why teams pass Amare Stoudamire, Caron Butler, Paul Pierce etc? Gay is from UConn, one of the best college systems. There is a reason that he didn't shine. 1st, referees do not give star treatment in colleges, 2nd, UConn always have good players in other positions, therefore, Gay does not need to carry the team.
We do have that one little problem called T-Mac's health. Our management, as well as T-Mac himself, are aware that he might not have too many seasons at the highest level ahead of him even though he's just turned 27 last month. That was said several times, and it is a known fact that we are in win-now mode. And Battier certainly fits that mode better than 19 years old rookie.
I get the feeling that a lot of the posters who are selling Gay short never saw him play in college. Maybe they watched one or two games of the NCAA tournament, but are otherwise basing their judgements off internet scouting reports. I can't really blame them though. Afterall, it would certainly seem as though the Rockets General Manager didn't do his job in properly scouting Gay, considering that he had to do 'last minute homework' days before the draft. I'm getting the feeling that the Rockets' FO's laziness in scouting Gay (not even holding a workout?) and assuming he wouldn't fall to #8 played a role in the decision to trade the pick. A lot of posters have tried to blame this on Morey, but if you heard the way DM raved about Rudy's game, that's hard to believe.
Do you think signing Battier will automatically push us to the top among all contenders? Do you think a lineup with Battier two or three years down the road will be more intimidating than a lineup with Gay two or three years from now? After three years I'd think we'd know whether Gay was a legit allstar and a 3rd scoring option or a 10 and 5 guy. Would signing Gay really hinder our shot at signing Wilcox or James this offseason? From what I gather, in signing Battier we actually lost $100,000, as well as whatever cash considerations we made in signing the Israeli player in the 2nd round. I don't know how that will effect us compared to a 1st round signing of Gay. But if it doesn't effect our chances of signing either of those FAs does it really sound like a good deal? Regardless of whether we kept Gay or not, it won't effect our contention next season unless we make a big trade or contract sign this offseason.
JVG is signing away the future of the franchise so that he can keep his job. Does he care where the franchise is in five years time? This is a new low ...
Truely disgusting, first he win a meaningless game late in the season which should have guaranteed us the selection of Brandon Roy just for his own coaching record and now this, unbelievable
I would just like to second all of London's Burning's posts. My thoughts are exactly the same as his.
This just in, Jeff Van Gundy (Van Dummy as known here on Clutchfans.net) was included in the deal to balance out the moron deficit in the trade. Since Memphis did not have any, and we have three, the 33% rule was invoked and Van Gundy was included. While he will not actually do any coaching for the Griz, he will serve as special advisor to Jerry West for all future personel decisions. West will run all trades and draft considerations past Van Gundy in the future and if Jeff smiles, touches his forehead and runs his finger through his one hair, Jerry will know to just say no. If Jeff says he hates the deal or the player, Jerry will make the trade or pick without hesitation. Every team needs a person like this to make sure your team has balanced thinking at the top and since we only gave up a lottery pick and a guy with similar stats that played half the time, Jerry would not accept the trade without additional compensation.
JVG's team? SS was JVG's hand selected FA (the new Camby). I have never been unhappier with the JVG Rox than n - o - w. (BTW - I like Battier. Are you kidding that this is the best deal they could get?)
No, he won't automatically push us to top. But he along with Mike James is much closer to doing it than Gay/James. We have something special in T-Mac/Yao combo but they won't be elite forever, especially T-Mac. That's the whole point... in this situation you have to give your best to cash in on T-Mac/Yao combo. And taking risk with the player like Gay IMHO doesn't fit there. Young players are cool but last time I checked recent championship teams were made of mostly veteran players. And speaking of recent championship teams, just take a look who were their SF's: James Posey, Bruce Bowen, Tayshaun Prince. More-less the same type of players Shane Battier is. There's nothing flashy about their stats, some aren't even 10-5 players Battier is, but yet they are/were major contributors to their team's success. I really don't understand how so many ppl judge Battier just according to his 10-5 statline. If you like stats so much, then why don't you take note that he's missed only 14 games during his career, that his shooting percentages were consistently solid throughout his career, that in his entire NBA career he has more steals than turnovers? He won't be our 3rd scorer, that's not why traded for him. You can't have it all in one player, especially when you already have 2 superstars on your roster. Hopefully Mike James is the one who will fill the '3rd scorer' role.
