The problem with Charlie Rosen is he makes sweeping statements on players based on the 1-2 time he saw them play. He probably thinks C-Lee is an average defender because he saw him play for the Nets where he played some of the worst ball of his career. The rox guys on the list are pretty much obvious. DM has gotten guys with defined strengths and weaknesses to complement 1-11. However in the new era though he's been more focused on getting two way players (Lee, Hill, PP, T-will) which I think is definitely a better approach.
Courtney Lee definately needs to be on the list as one of the top man defenders, If anyone remembers when he was put on Derrick Rose (one of many examples this season), you can't just do that one every now and then.
the knicks were terrible, and jeffries was one of the players knicks fans hated. so i don't really think so.
That was my question! Charlie Rosen does a good job of breaking down plays/games and sees things that the average fan misses.
I think its more like TD has more low post back to basket post moves. He mainly posts up. Hakeem, however, usually played the defender straight up, with lots of drives and fakes, not necessarily "post" moves.
Nope. Duncan faces up a lot on top of the key or left wing. He does not have more back to the basket moves when compared to Hakeem. In fact, Duncan relies more on his face to the basket game to get his go-to bank shot. Huh? I am going to have to say that you have not seen Hakeem play. Article is wrong on both counts. Neither was Duncan stronger than Hakeem, nor did he have more post moves. Rasheed Wallace and Ben Wallace have given Duncan problems because of their strength and length (Rasheed). So has Pau Gasol. Hakeem took on the entire 90s Knicks frontline. I just dont see Duncan doing the same. Hakeem also had more post moves and counter moves. With his back to the basket, he had the jump hook going to the middle or the up and under. Going towards the baseline he had the fadeaway or the spin move towards the basket. He added in several fakes to these moves to keep the defender off-balance. He also faced up at the top of the key and initiated his back to the basket from there if needed. Hakeem was also a better shooter off of pick and roll/pop plays. Hakeem was a quicker and stronger version of Duncan with more moves and better defense.
From a statistical standpoint, Luis' "dropoff" in defense basically coincided with Yao/Mutumbo leaving the Rockets rotation. Note that the Rockets defense didn't really drop off much, if at all, when Scola replaced Hayes in the lineup. Which shows just how much easier it is to play man-defense when you're not required to do much else. Basically, I feel that Scola's capable of good man-defense on opposing PFs. He's not capable of good man-defense on opposing centers, or taking on the dual task of guarding the paint in addition to guarding his man.
Having Yao or Mutombo next to you masks a lot of deficiencies, true. Scola's gets out-quicked and out-strengthed too often for me to consider him a good individual defender. The one thing he has going for him on defense is he plays harder than pretty much anyone else on the floor.
rosen wrote that hakeem/duncan comparison some time before and i guess just brought it out again. while he ultimately comes to the correct conclusion, some of the claims are ridiculous. saying duncan has a more varied low post attack is just absurd. i don't see any way it's not wrong. if we're just adding up low post moves, scola might actually be the closest i've seen to matching hakeem's total. to say duncan had more just seems like he's making stuff up. he might as well have said duncan was more nigerian than hakeem. duncan is impressive in many ways, but he doesn't have a more varied low post attack. he's also not stronger. and damn am i getting tired of the duncan has been so incredibly consistent for so long while hakeem didn't have that long of a prime and fell off before duncan argument. duncan is in season 14 putting up 13.2/9.4/2.0 with a 21.7 PER and 52.1 TS%. even dealing with quite a few injuries, hakeem in season 14 put up 16.4/9.8/2.0 with a 20.8 PER and 53.1 TS%. and, when healthy the next season, hakeem put up 18.9/9.6/2.5 with a 23.1 PER and 55.9 TS%. lets see if duncan is up near those numbers in year 15. and that doesn't even take into account that, because of the quality of the spurs supporting cast, duncan hasn't had to play over 34.8 mpg since he was 27 while hakeem didn't drop below 34.7 mpg until he was 37.
In reference to strength, I think Rosen might be referring to Duncan's base. He's got a sturdy posterior, which he used to great effect to post up close to the basket and box out for rebounds. Rosen might be underrating Hakeem's strength in his earlier years, though, or perhaps confusing Dream with David Robinson. As far as post moves, Duncan had little flash, but he had the fullest repertoire of moves of his generation. Its hard to say that he had more post moves than Hakeem, but its comparable. One thing you could say in favor of Duncan -- he knew how to draw fouls. Less spinning away or around defenders, but better at drawing contact. Again the moves didn't end up looking as flashy but he was pretty effective nonetheless.
Sorry my point wasn't clear. What I'm saying is that Hayes is more a jack-of-all-trades defender, able to perform admirably on defense with different schemes and teammates. While Scola is someone who's more limited in his role. But that in the limited role, Scola is good. Perhaps very good. Hence, the difference between Scola and Hayes is small when playing with a top center. But widens when they're asked to play PF/C and do a lot of different things.
Id agree with that, my issue is with some people gushing about how horrible he is, he isnt horrible, he is average. I dont agree with the lateral speed mentioned earlier, he is in fact good at hard shows on high PnRs and you dont do that well without at least decent lateral footspeed.
Yeah, he is quite good at defending the PnR. As durvasa pointed out, he gets overpowered by bigger players, and he gets lost from time to time in rotation. In general, I think he is better at defending outside of the post than at the low post. As for Jeffries, he is one of the elite defenders. If we didn't have Hayes, he'd be having a lot more PT.
As far as PnRs, I would say he's aggressive and persistent. Not sure that's really attributable to good lateral quickness. To my eyes, he doesn't move side to side very well to cut off drives.
Yeah, I agree with this. Most people don't grasp the difference between good,awful and average defense. They only see good and bad. Scola gets scored on but a lot of the time it's by guys who score on most bigs. He isn't a major hole in the defense.
Yeah, people exaggerate Scola's defensive weakness, there are plenty of worst defensive big men out there and for what he lacks in natural talent, he usually does out hustle most big men he defends, save the freaks like Howard or Jefferson.
