[FoxSports.com]- Bush or Young? Let's Settle This Debate

I think it's time to start waiting for the Indianapolis combine. The Bush vs. Vince debate is giving me a headache. I just want the Texans to get the best player.

Getting Bush is cool because the Texans keep Carr. Bush has been on a cult status since high school (remember the infamous high school years tape ) Best prospect to come out in years. Plus, I still think Carr is going to be a pro bowler real soon (he's kind of goofy sometimes; but as long as he gets respect from his teamates). Dynasty? Carr, Bush, Johnson

Getting Vince is cool because he is an electrifying player who is from Houston, and has SWAGGER And I firmly think that he will win super bowls, he is so poised that it just has to rub off on his teamates, Even Mckinney would play better. But, what can the Texans get for Carr? Isn't his trade value low. Would the Carr pick be a total waste of 4 years (too many sacks might have ruined him already for good; time to replace?)


Bush and Davis together would be an electrifying Running back combo. With David Carr having scrabling ability, that should loosen up the coverage for David to hit his receivers.

 

It wasn't just Reggie's "one great game", it was also Vince's poor showing against A&M that cemeneted Bush in the heisman.

And what polls are you talking about? I certainly don't ever remember anyone being "in the lead" until Bush went out in front.

 

This is correct accoring to ESPN weely polls of Heisman voters. Interesting, in the West Coast they were bidding Leinart after the ND game. It was all about Leinart is such a winner, best player of a team that won 30+, that is why it can't go to Young, bla, bla, bla. Bush's spectacular game versus a mid major opponent widely swung the Heisman voters to his favor from Young and his teammate. Had Young pulled a Kansas performance on A&M you never know, but he didn't. I am glad VY did in the game that really mattered though.

It never was about body of work for the season, it was all about who made the best impression last. Since the award voting was pre-Rose bowl, Bush made the best last impression and won easily.

It was clear to me and a few others who was by far the best college football player well before the Rose Bowl, it took the Rose Bowl to make it obvious for the rest. But again, VY and Texas got the hardwear that is earned on the field.

 

David Carr 18 - 46 as a starter.

 

That says a TON.......4 years is enough time to see what he has....how long do you think Detroit would stay with Joey Harrington?

Carr and Harrington are very close....IMHO

 

Harrington went to a more established team (not expansion) and one with multiple weapons. He has shown to be a complete bonehead on the field. Carr at least has shown he can make plays. Heck, he has been known to be one of the better NFL QBs at reading a defense and making the right decision on where to throw.

Let's not let cases like Rothlisberger, Palmer, and Brady skew your thinking. It takes years for a QB to reach their potential. Not to mention talent around him. Just look at Drew Brees and Jake Plummer. Get the right coaching, another weapon or two, and an O-line he trusts without getting too skiddish and you're talking about a whole different QB.

 

Harrington has three decent recievers in Roy Williams, Mike Williams, and Charles Rogers (although Rogers is definitely somewhat of a sketch) and he's got a good tight end in marcus pollard. Also Kevin Jones has shown he can be a decent running back. (although this was a bad year for him) And most importantly, he has a better OL than carr ever had.

Harrington has no excuse to be sucking this badly.

 

Man, you could have put virually any QB on the Texans the result wouln't change much at all.

I can pretty much guarantee you that if a "Vince Young" had been in the draft 4 years ago when we selected Carr you'd all be b****ing about how he's a bust and how bad his record was.

 

After Vince led us to back-to-back superbowl titles and 4 straight years in the playoffs I would not b**** about his record and certainly wouldn't consider him a bust.

 

See this is where a LEADER steps up and does not let his team play this poorly.

I think David Carr has been a complete and utter bust, he holds the ball too long, has no pocket precense and the next show of leadership by him will be his first.

Vince makes everyone around him better.....Carr....well he makes lunch.

DD

 

does anyone remember the knock against Carr coming out of Fresno State? anyone??? side-arm delivery may not translate to the NFL. how many passes does Carr have batted down by d-linemen in a given game? Carr: 6'3", 220. Young: 6'5", 235. i'm just throwing that out there...

 

Texans needa go Reggie-Reggie in this draft: pick up Reggie Bush 1st, and Reggie McNeal later.

 

, thats what i have been saying

 

Here we go again.

Vince Young led in every Heisman straw poll the two weeks before Reggie's game against Fresno State. Every one of them. Again, you're believing the media's hype instead of the actual reality. Vince was leading... but curiously, you didn't hear much about who was winning those online polls until Bush grabbed the lead, then it was the lead story of Sportscenter every night.

And, as has already been said, Vince's "poor" showing against A&M was no worse than Reggie's showing against California two weeks earlier.

 

Except for the little fact that Carr has had a higher QB rating than Harrington in each of their first four seasons in the league, even though Harrington has had a significantly better supporting cast (receivers, tight ends, offensive line) around him.

They're not close at all. There's a reason most respected NFL pundits still claim Carr to be the future of the Texans (why they suggest drafting Bush) and why most claim the Lions to be in the market for a new quarterback. Harrington's been put in a position to succeed, and he's failed. Carr hasn't ever been put anywhere close to a position to succeed, and even so, he's still doing better than Harrington. No comparison.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how some people take such a complex game with over 100 players on the sidelines and 22 on the field and break it down into a game of one player - the quarterback(s).

Texas is one of the top five schools in the entire country in terms of recruiting on a year-to-year basis. The talent around Young is filled with five-star prospects and is in the top 3-4 of talent of 117 teams in Division 1-A football. The talent around Carr is filled with mostly garbage and is clearly in the bottom five in the NFL.

Relative to the competition, Vince has remarkable and incredible talent around him. Relative to the competition, Carr has awful and historically bad talent around him. I've got a funny feeling that might illustrate why the two teams performed as they did - not any absurd idea that players will try harder if the quarterback is a better leader.

None of us are in a position to make any judgments on leadership unless we are on the field or in the lockerroom.

 

I don't see Carr with that many batted balls relative to other quarterbacks. Sure, he has a few, but so does everyone in the NFL. Also, when he does, it's hard to tell whether it's the fault of his delivery or the fault of the worst offensive line in the history of the sport letting the defensive line get too much penetration (and thus in Carr's face). It's not a big problem for Carr, and I don't think it'll be for Vince either. As Mike Martz said a week ago when evaluating Vince, who really cares if the ball gets there?

 

Vince in the NFL =

 

Brees got better when THE FUTURE was drafted . .he got. . inspired
Carr has not had any competition in 4 yrs .. and it shows .. he too comfortable

Plummer has been asked to be a Game Manager not a playmaker
Trent Dilfer 2.0 . . . While it may win games it is not entertaining to me
If Carr is to be Dilfer 2.5 . . . i will pass

Rocket River

 

Plummer is much more than Dilfer. For one thing, his QB rating is over 90, which blows Dilfer's out of the water. However, it's not as simple as Denver limiting his opportunities and turning into a game manager. He was in or around the top third in the league in yards, attempts and YPA. Dilfer was at the bottom in all of those categories.

The reality is that Plummer improved when he got a decent supporting cast of both players and coaches around him. And while the short, simplistic explanation from the media for Brees' improvement is that Rivers "inspired" him, the reality, again, is different. Remember Antonio Gates, the best tight end in the NFL? It's no coincidence that Brees' good seasons came at the same time as Gates' emergence as a big-time playmaker.

Plummer and Brees both showed significant improvement later in their careers when they were put in a position to succeed by having better talent around them.