Fox Sports says Darius Miles for Andre Miller trade is done

Do the Clippers still have Kandi? Wasn't he drafted in 98? Shouldn't he be a free agent?

 

You are kidding rights

Francis > Miller
Cuttino > Q Rich
Nachbar/Rice < Odom [I'm conceding this because i'm not a big odom fan and think he overrated]
KT/MoT/Griff = Brand, rookies
Ming/Cato = Kandi, flotsam

I think you guys overrate Odom and Kandi
and underrate Griff/MoT/KT

Rocket River

 

One more time...

Duncan
Is
A
Center

The NBA just lists him as a "power forward" because they want both Duncan and Shaq starting in the all star game

As for the trade, I like it a lot for the Clip-joint. I can see them as the new incarnation of those 90's Phoenix teams. They'll be running up and down every night and scoring a bunch of points, but don't look for them to be too big on defense.

Look for the Cavs to be tank-a-licious this year

 

Damn, you guys are fast! I believe that this is an all-out coup for Los Angeles. Miller has an almost perfect game - he can find openings, drive/shoot in traffic and draw fouls, not to mention his solid passing/defense/rebounding, etc. He isn't much of a spot-up shooter, but the Clippers have plenty of those (including Stith).

Miles is decent - his shooting and decision-making aren't that bad - but he is best used in the frontcourt lineup. I don't think that he is a superstar in the making, and the Clippers don't really need him...

Millers' numbers will take a major hit, with several players eating up possessions and making plays. For this reason, he won't have a drastic impact on the Clippers' record.

My prediction-
Cleveland (if Ilgauskas' minutes are limited):
17 wins
Los Angeles (if Odom plays all 82 games):
46 wins

Olowokandi is one of the worst starters in the league. While he is a good passer out of the post, he is about as consistent as Jerome Moiso - and doesn't really have much game (he doesn't protect the ball, his footwork is pretty bad, etc.)

 

It isn't so much that the Cavs didn't get fair value for Miller as it is that they didn't get what they could have gotten on draft night. On draft night, they were talking about #8, #12, and Richardson or Odom for little Andre Miller. They pressed for Miles and the deal collapsed. Is Miles worth #8, #12, and Odom? Not by a long shot. Cavs got screwed because they were set to take advantage of the Clipps on draft night but screwed it up and now must settle for fair value.

As for the James sweepstakes, I don't think Cleveland can out-tank Denver. Fortunately for them, they'll still a good shot from the second worst record. It is sad though to see multiple teams start tanking in the offseason and know that the plan will only work for one of them.

 

First I just want to say Cuttino is WAY better than Q, it's a fact bud...

I don't know how many games all of you all have seen of Miller, unless you've got League Pass probably not too many. Last year I saw like 4 games and the Goodwill games. When I look at his stats and boxscores he amazes me. Like 17 assists games with 0 turnovers, but when I see him he doesn't seem to be all that. Is he really that good a passer and playmaker? He did have some reliable three-point shooters with Person and that other guy. He had a pretty good athletic wing with Ricky Davis as well. At LA he'll have plenty of athletic players, but how many shooters? Q is alright and Piatkowski is good, but don't most of their players score on their own?

I'm just trying to say that I don't get to see Miller play much, but I've seen his stats and they're really impressive, but every time I've seen him play he didn't seem like a top 5 PG.

About the deal: Regardless of how good Miller is, he's still a better PG than what the Clippers have and they just had to give up Miles to get him. The Cavs got screwed over big-time, although they probably don't think so since they're tanking for Lebron. Miles is pretty overrated. He's athletic and all, but I don't know how long if ever it will take for his shot to develop. He's a good player, but definitely not the same value as Miller. It helps the Clips alot because it solves their glut at 2/3. Dajuan Wagner is not Iverson. He'll score alot, but I don't think he's going to be helping the team doing so. Miles will have better numbers, but the Cavs are going to be brutal.

Now let's be lucky the Clips didn't get Baron...Now THAT would be scary. Anyways, everything will be screwed up next year because Sterling is a cheap b*stard running the worst oranization in the L to the ground over and OVER and OVER...Just wants to make $$$...

 

That is almost as stupid as the post that DR was a better defensive player than Hakeem. CM is light years ahead of Q as a starting NBA 2--at least right now.

This is a great trade for the Clips--hard to believe the Cavs didn't get Wilcox along with Miles in that deal. That said, the Clips shooters suck. Q is at best a decent shooter--no where on the level of Francis or Mobley, and neither Miller nor Maggette nor Kandi nor Dooling nor Odom can shoot a lick outside of 16 feet. Also, where is the offensive leadership? Brand is a very, very good all around player but dominant offensive force on the level of Webber or KG or TD he is NOT. Maybe Miller will do it but like JK he can suffer from a bad shooting syndrome and allow the D to collapse.

I think they make the playoffs and probably finish ahead of the Rockets but are still far from a competing team in the west unless they jell far better than expected. Also, if you asked me if I would trade Francis, Ming, Griffin, Mobes, Nachbar and co (the whole Rockets team) for Brand, Miller, Odom, Kandi, Q and co--I would say over the long term I'll stick to my guys in my organization. Still both teams with futures if they don't blow it.

 

No way are the Clippers head-and-shoulders(Like many of you seem to think) above the Rockets.

Miller is a great addition to the team, although it cost them a future star. Cuttino is a better offensive player than Richardson, while Richardson is the better defender. I would say that Cuttino has a slight edge in the overall matchup. Brand/Wilcox/Ely is a great PF set, but we have a group of PF's that definitely rivals theirs. Griffin has the potential to become Brand's equal(He could even be a better defender), and Taylor/KT are both very good offensive players. Ming should be able to match Kandi's production sometime in the next two seasons.

I believe that, next season, the Rockets will be the better team. Only time will tell who will be better when all is said and done. A lot of it definitely hinges on whether or not Sterling shells out the money at contract time.

 

I also think it was a good trade for both teams. I don't mind seeing the Clips get better. I look forward to the day the L.A. teams switch in power. I do feel the Clips' improvement is a little scary for the Rocks, but unlike most people here, I'm more concerned for the short term than the long term. Andre Miller is good, but he's not a superstar. He'll make the Clippers better in the short term, but in the long term, I still feel the Rocks will be stronger. The difference is that Miller is a proven player stepping into a team with a core that's played together for a year (not including Odom). The Rocks, while we have great upside, are still relying on two rookies having an impact to make the playoffs. I could see the Clippers once again getting a better record, but over the long term, I think the Rocks will still be the stronger team.

I also wonder about whether Clippers management will keep them together, but I won't touch that one.

 

I like the trade for both teams, but two things:

Most people are underestimating the impact that Andre Miller, as a true point guard, will have on the boats. Everyone on that team just got lucky in that they will have to do half as much in order to win than before. If you look at a team as something like a hive mentality, then the Clips just added queen bee.

As for the Cavs, who could they have possibly hoped for in return for Miller? Getting someone young, exciting, outrageously talented and a ticket seller is the absolute best for them. They were never going to win any playoff series soon, so I think Miles, a potential superstar, already a young star IMO, is a steal. I don't know if I would ever have let him go.

 

It's truly amazing how much Rockets fans overrate Cuttino.

The guy is an unbelievable ballhog, has a putrid assist/TO ratio, is extremely selfish. There's a LOT more to the NBA than stats.

If the Rockets called up LAC right now and offered Cuttino for QRich, the Clips would hang up the phone in 2 seconds. Q Rich is developing into a flat out stud. The guy has an awesome post game, is very athletic, already D's up WAY better than Cuttino, and is developing his J.

 

Calling: The Cat......

Q's a good player, I think Cuttino is better right now and still has much room to improve

 

Olowokandi, Miller, Brand, and Odom all want the MAX.

No way in HELL Sterling ponies up for more than 2 of em, if that.

 

The Clippers will win the season series against the Rockets next year. And I'll put my money where my mouth is. Any takers?

 

It's truly amazing how much Rockets fans overrate Cuttino.

The guy is an unbelievable ballhog, has a putrid assist/TO ratio, is extremely selfish. There's a LOT more to the NBA than stats.

If the Rockets called up LAC right now and offered Cuttino for QRich, the Clips would hang up the phone in 2 seconds. Q Rich is developing into a flat out stud. The guy has an awesome post game, is very athletic, already D's up WAY better than Cuttino, and is developing his J.

Quentin Richardson's assist/TO ratio over 48 minutes: 1.27
Cuttino Mobley's assist/TO ratio over 48 minutes: 1.03

If all Mobley has to do is increase his assist/TO ratio .25 for it to be acceptable, it's not anywhere close to being putrid. Also, Mobley's best players to pass to for most of last season consisted of Kenny Thomas, Moochie Norris, and Kelvin Cato. Shouldn't Richardson be doing significantly better with Elton Brand, Corey Maggette, and Michael Olowokandi?

Quentin Richardson's shots per 48 minutes: 20.6
Cuttino Mobley's shots per 48 minutes: 20.9

Quentin Richardson's points per shot: 1.16
Cuttino Mobley's points per shot: 1.18

Since they both shoot around the same shots per game, and Mobley is more efficient in terms of points per shot, that would make Richardson the greater candidate for "selfish ballhog".

Also, one important ability is the ability to create. Mobley can; Richardson can't. Richardson is a Bonzi Wells clone-- he can get some baskets in the post (though FAR from an awesome post game), has a decent shot on the perimeter, but he cannot take the ball off the dribble and get to the basket. With Mobley's ability to score off the dribble, both by going inside and shooting the midrange jumper, he forces the entire defense to watch what he is doing, and potentially loosen the defense for other players.

One of the more effective plays we ran last year was an isolation for Cuttino on the right wing. He could often get by his man and go baseline, forcing a defender to come down and guard him. Mobley would then kick it up top, to Griffin or Thomas, who would then swing it to the left corner where Walt would be standing wide open for a three. Assists aren't the only way to judge the ability to create. You can't measure the pass that sets up the pass, or the amount of respect opposing defenses must pay when you have the ball. The ability to create off the dribble draws the line between star guards and good guards.

What else does creating off the dribble do? Well, it gets you to the foul line, to get easy points.

Quentin Richardson's free throws per 48 minutes: 4.16
Cuttino Mobley's free throws per 48 minutes: 4.84

Now, to the defense. First, a WAY better defender shouldn't be getting .96 steals per game compared to 1.47 for the lesser one. Especially when this supposedly better defender has a better shotblocker behind him.

Second, let's look at the points from top two guards in the West (not counting Cuttino) against the Clippers and Rockets:

Kobe Bryant
vs. Clippers: 27.5
vs. Rockets: 24.7

Michael Finley
vs. Clippers: 19
vs. Rockets: 15.7

That being said, the Rockets never double team perimeter players, unlike most every other team in the NBA. They leave them in one on one situations, which makes these numbers more remarkable for Mobley. Also, Mobley doesn't have the shotblocker behind him. Mobley's defense has improved, and anyone who thinks it is still bad or terrible either hasn't watched many games lately, has a bias against Mobley, or is looking for a scapegoat for the Rockets failures.

The numbers don't lie. There's not a stat for everything in basketball, but it does come close. Almost every number is in Mobley's favor, aside from the assist/turnover ratio, which is due mostly to the increased duties he has in running the Rockets offense. There are some stats that are close, and I could see a diehard Richardson fan thinking that Quentin might be as good as Mobley now down the road. But to think that "Richardson is a stud, Cuttino a dud" or that the Clippers would "laugh at such a proposal" is just extreme bias against Cuttino Mobley, which apparently runs rampant on this board. When Richardson turns into a 22 ppg scorer, let's have this discussion.

 

no need to call up the cat, that's right on the money. cuttino rained in his 21.7 b/c of his 42.0 minutes a game... put the stat tracker on "per 48 minutes", and you'll find q's numbers eclipse or come extremely close to cat's in every category ( meaning, since q will start this year, he will become a 22ppg scorer ), if not outright bettering him... cat's 26 and started, q's 22 and didn't start... couple that w/ cato=bum's above statements relating to intangibles, and it's clear to see q is better. and btw, 2 seconds is a conservative estimate of time it'd take for the clips to hang up the phone... i'm gonna go w/ 1.2... hoho


as for rocket river's positional rankings, if you're gonna do it solely by position, let's do it correctly.


one: andre miller / marko jaric = francis / mooch

two: qrich / erik piatkowski > mobley / torres

three: odom / maggette > rice / nachbar / tmo

four: brand / wilcox < grif / kt / mot ( production wise, for now... )

five: kandi / ely > ming / cato


for those counting, that's clips: three greater thans, rocks: one greater than... three greater thans > one greater than hoho...

 

The Cat...
Mission Accomplished

 

lol @ "cat mission accomplished"... thanks to a bit of skewed logic ( albeit not all ), cat barely comes out "on top"... they are both ballers ( btw, forget to mention some other "per 48 minutes" stats? eg: q's 24.0 ppg compared to cat's 24.7, or q's 7.6 rpg compared to cat's 4.9 rpg... ), but q will start this year, and at 22 yrs of age, compared to cat's 26, will put this nonsense to rest.

 

four: brand / wilcox / ely / rooks > grif / kt / mot

brand plays 37 mpg and his backups are all PF size unlike the rocket's 3's, excuse me, 4's.

Q's post game is highly underrated and highly underutilized because of Kandi, Brand, and next year Odom.

 

cat and q are very close imo. I wouldn't give a huge advantage to either yet.

I would give a slight advantage to Cat right now because he's proven what he can do as a full-time starter. Q should get his chance to do that soon.