I love this whole attitude of "Hey, 30 NBA GM's don't want Wafer, what makes you smarter than all of them?" I'm wondering, what happens if Wafer goes somewhere, puts up the same kind of numbers he did here, and his new team ends up with a better record than ours? Are you still going to look down your nose at the rest of us and claim Morey was right to let him walk? Are you still going to argue that the rest of us are wrong, and "real" basketball people agree with your assessment of Wafer?
If Von Wafer signs a contract and out-performs it, sure, then Morey (plus anyone else who could have used him and refused to sign him at that contract) would be wrong. So, wanna make a $100 tip jar bet? If Wafer: (1) averages at least 20 mpg (he averaged 19.7 last year), (2) scores at least 10 ppg (he averaed 9.7 last year), and (3) spends the whole year on a team that end up with more wins than the Rockets do next season, then you win and I make the donation. Otherwise, I win and you make the donation.
What is funny is that a lot of the people that are hammering Wafer for his one sidedness, are totally fine with Chuck Hayes and his putrid offensive game. I think there is room for both an offensive minded player and a defensive minded player it makes your team stronger to have variety. It seems that many people are too shallow in their thinking to appreciate that variety is the spice of life. DD
Comparing Hayes with Wafer? You're smarter than that DD. Wafer is not a team player - I fail to see how you of all people can simply overlook that. You can't just chalk up what happened in the playoffs as "immaturity". Wafer's been bounced around the league with no success, you would think when he finally got a shot he would make the most of it and be humble about it - Chuck was, and it got him some LongTime security.
Sure you can LTF, he is a young competitive player trying to make a name for himself and didn't want to come out of the game. He is younger than many current Rockets, and has taken 4 years to hone his game and is finally getting the opportunity. I don't hold what he did against him anymore than I held Ron getting kicked out of the first two games against him. Wafer is still growing up.....and to get him on the cheap to see if he develops further is smart business to me. He may never develop but a 10ppg player who shoots well, attacks the basket and can hit the 3 ball has a place on the team and in the rotation. Why punish a kid for a one time deal...heck Hakeem, Barkley, MJ, Melo (this year) all did stupid stuff....not saying Von is on their level, but you just teach them and move on....what is the big deal? And the comparison to Hayes is that both he and Von are severly one sided..... DD
Chuck Hayes is under the contract, and Wafer is looking for a contract. Chuck is so valuable for the team after Yao is done for the year, What is so special for Wafer since we got three more SF/SG players, and Tmac is looking for a return.
Both are valuable to the team, they are different but unique in their skillsets...there is a place for both. AT THE RIGHT PRICE !! DD
I dont see how you are going to compare the two Chuck is an elite one on one defender AND team defender Von is a great one on one offensive player but NOT a good team offensive player (hence the nickname the players/coaches gave him) He can create for himself, but he cannot create for others. Chuck also puts the TEAM first before any of his own personal success. Chuck will come in even if its for 2-3 minutes and will work his butt off and make an impact. This was true 3 seasons ago when Chuck signed two different 10 day contracts and playing for his NBA career much like Von was this past season. Von has not shown that and has complained about his minutes -hence being thrown out of a playoff game---and before you say thats not a big deal since other players like Anthony and all have had that happen--DO NOT compare the two players at all Anthony is a proven NBA star and is allowed some slack...Von not so much. And add in that it was Rick Adelman of all coaches tossing Von and then Rick letting it slip that it wasnt the first time well that has to tell you something about Von's mentality when it comes to "me and team" I would have given Von a benefit of a doubt if the coach was more of hard ass like JVG, Skiles, Sloan etc. on being tossed but Adelman? I am going to side with Adelman who has had knuckleheads like Ron and Bonzi play for him and he hasnt tossed them out of games. If Von was an elite offensive player both for himself and the team, I dont think a lot of people would want him gone, I think the team would be more aggressive in trying to retain his services. Heck if he could create shots for his teammates and all I would want him back to but alas he has tunnel vission
DD, All thing you are saying about Wafer are largely correct, he is a young, and can score, and can improve, but I think his position determines his value. He would be already signed if he is playing a center or a point guard. There are so many SF/SG players in the NBA, you can easily put one of them into the team, and the team likely remain the same level.
Hayes, I am not arguing at all, I love both Chuck for his skills and Von for his...I think having both makes the Rockets a lot more flexible. That is my point....not comparing the two, just saying they both are good for the Rockets. Your challenge young padwan is to go out, check the free agent markets of wings available and find one that scored around 10ppg in 20mpg on 44+% shooting and 40% 3pt shooting. I wish you well young padwan.. DD
I am sorry, getting tossed because he didn't want to come out of the game because of competitiveness just doesn't bother me one bit. And it didn't bother Rick much either as he put him in the very next game. Things happen in heated situations, young, competitive players make mistakes. You use those times to teach them....and you come out with a better player/asset. Von will probably get slightly more than the minimum, maybe a 2 year deal with a player option in year 3.......from somewhere. Hopefully here. DD
Saying "he has taken 4 years to hone his game and is finally getting the opportunity" is the agent-spin way of saying he hasn't been good enough to stick with a team through the first four years of his NBA career. The fact that it has taken so long for him to get on the court consistently should have been humbling, but instead Wafer seemed to think he knew better than our HOF coach. You sure as heck better not hold it in the same regard as Ron - Artest went after the other team in sticking up for a cheap shot laid on him. Wafer went after his OWN team, getting in a shouting match with a HOF coach in the middle of the biggest playoff game this current Rocket squad has ever experienced. You of all people know that the game of basketball isn't an individual sport and needs a great team to succeed - yet all you do is praise Wafer for his individual talent. Von was not a good teammate this year, he was moreso a spark plug we just gave the ball to and asked to score 4 or 6 points that quarter. Wafer is still about himself, and that attribute of his was on display on the biggest stage of his career - the playoffs. Chuck Hayes is immensely more valuable to this team because he actually buys into the philosophy and is a good teammate. You won't ever see Chuck arguing with the coach; he'll do what he's asked as best as he can. Comparing the two is a failing argument for you. In the end, I trust coach Adelman even moreso than I do Morey. If Adelman isn't banging down the door to bring this guy back for 2 million, that should be a big red flag for you that there are underlying problems with him.
it bothers me especially when its a playoff game and where every possession counts. I dont get how you can say that it doesnt bother you, maybe if he shown that same sort of competitive "fire" on the defensive end of the court he wouldnt have to be pulled out. Maybe if he showed that same sort of competitiveness to win through the team than himself than he wouldnt have to have any sort of talks with the coach. Also with the injuries the team had who else was Rick going to be play at the SG spot? Brent Barry? Ron was already playing somewhat out of position at SG to start then after Ron you have Von and Barry. Why do you think that Rick started using a lot of Brooks and Lowry in the backcourt all of a sudden in the lakers series? He couldnt keep them out there for extended periods of time because of the lack of size but they were an effective backcourt. Chances are that had McGrady been as healthy as he was the previous year vs utah Von would have hardly saw the court as Rick could have juggled tmac/ron, tmac/shane, ron/shane for the majority of the minutes at the 2/3 spots and then possibly play the brooks/lowry backcourt. Von had a golden opportunity to really buy into the team and secure his future, he played well but he was only playing for himself and not the team. and IMO he is not that talented to be out there playing for himself. I understand Von is a young player and if this was his first team I would have gotten your "he is young his going to make mistakes" but he has been on 3 different teams before Houston there has to be a point where the word "young" becomes "knucklehead" I dont care how young you are, even if you are coming out of high school, fine you get cut from your first team, you learned you get cut again from your second team you learn but you do it again for a third time? if Von has that amazing offensive game and "elite" athleticism that you always claim he has why didnt the other 3 teams want to keep him? Why didnt Von make himself indispensable to those teams? He just doesnt get it You are a smart man DD you know that History is the greatest indicator of the Future. Why do you think none of believe what Tmac says when he says he is going to return to "elite" status History has shown that his word is as a bounced check. Looking at Von's history both with the other teams and his time here in Houston something tells me that he will repeat these same mistakes wherever he is. I dont want him going through the growing pains he should have learnt from being cut from the lakers and all here i Houston. We have actual rookies I would rather see get that fresh start, Von has had his and he has blown it time and time again with multiple teams
Wait what? Now it is a shouting match? It was no such thing, IIRC he voiced his displeasure and Adelman tossed him and he left. I am just not bothered by it in the least. I think you take a risk on a guy who has proven he belongs in the NBA more than two 2nd round picks. Young players make stupid mistakes, you sign them and hope they grow, if not you cut them loose, he is still a very young player. And please don't downplay him coming in as the 15th man last year and subsequently beating out Luther Head.....and Brent Barry....... That shows progress. DD
Ah, finally we get to the heart of the matter. There's a big, big difference. The difference is that defense is distributed among 5, but offense doesn't have to be. Do all five players take the same number of shots? No way. All 5 players must defend, box out, rotate, etc. on defense. That's the difference. If Chuck only takes 2 or 3 shots a game it's not a problem. There are much better options for shots. The only hole in his game is that teams could Hack-a-Chuck. Streetball on the other hand gives up way too much on defense. Who cares if he scores if he gives it right back via an offensive rebound to the other team? I'm guessing that it will be even worse since without Yao and Deke we'll have zero shot blocking presence. Imagine his man blowing by him for lay-ups and dunks. You win games by point differential and you could make an argument that despite 10 PPG, Streetball's differential is negative.
You could make that argument for sure, if you can prove that he was the sole reason for the point differential either positively or negatively. Look, we are talking about a contract near the league minimum, I seriously can not believe that people would rather pay that money to Taylor and Budinger....2 guys who MAY be able to play in the NBA, over one guy, we KNOW can play in the NBA. But, whatever..... DD
It's gotta be youtube that has dumbed down so many people on this forum into believing that a second round pick is going to come in and be a more effective player than Von Wafer immediately (and this team needs help immediately). Undoubtedly, it's the same group who swore Joey Dorsey was going to make Hayes, Landry and Mutombo obsolete because he jumps high and has big muscles like Ben Wallace. Brilliant.
I thought Morey was willing to offer something, but Wafer was wanting more? P.S. I liked your post, Smooth
