And yes I think we sh ould have kept kent. I don't see how the leading RBI guy on the team isn't worth 9 million.
Rocket -- not every owner makes these moves. someone has to pony up the cash. if he gets hurt, drayton eats it. he takes the risk...he certainly gets the reward. but as a fan, i get the tangential reward of enjoying watching clemens pitch again. so you don't give an owner credit for signing a key guy...but he does get credit for NOT signing a guy?? hmmmm.... it's a business he profits from if he signs the guy...but it's not the same sort of decision if he lets Kent walk. right. got it.
Can the Stros be competetive if their starting pitching stays healthy? They still need to shore up some solid middle relief and have to pray Lane turns out to be a above average hitter (and power hitter), Berkman's injury doesn't take longer than expected to heal and to have him be competetive, and they find some speed somewhere in the lineup. This signing should keep the Stros in the playoff race, theoretically, well into the summer, assuming Pettite pitches a full season.
i agree. depends on what you think it will take to win this division. i think it will take less wins than it did last year...but that just my speculation. mostly because i can't see the cards repeating last year over again.
sam.. yeah I know, I should donate some. madmax.. I'm just saying I don't think he had any other choice, and I think any other owner does the same deal if he thinks his attendance will drop a million fans by not signing the guy. Can you imagine the backlash if he hadn't signed Roger? This offseason has been horrible so far, and he'd lose a lot more than 18 million if he dared put a team on the field without any of the 3 big name guys from last year. I just wish I had some numbers in front of me. As an econ major etc, I won't fault a guy for not signing someone if I think it will result in him having less profits, I'd do the same thing. But at the same time my biggest issue is that I've always felt that if the payroll was expanded the attendance would also expand and he'd actually end up making more money. I think that was shown last year by 3 million fans.
also as I said in the other thread, I think Roger may have been very well worth 22 mil. This is a move you make.. a no brainer
eh okay i'm going to have to donate so I can edit.. One last thing, the only reason I thanked Roger for coming back last year is because he took such a big paycut. At 18 mil I don't think you are going to see as many.. thank you roger signs this year.
he didn't even think he was worth it!!! his agent said it was a joke when they submitted it. he said that at today's press conference. as for your other argument...attendance can't be expanded by much at this point, since it's in excess of 3 million. and attendance isn't as big a part of the revenue pie as you might think. particularly when compared to much bigger markets with huge media deals. we're not NY or Boston. we're just not. there is a budget for virtually EVERY MLB team...remember, even the Yanks backed away on bidding on Beltran, in the end. i just think if you're gonna criticize him for NOT siging a player you ought to give him credit FOR signing a player. particularly when he gave him the biggest deal for a pitcher in a single season EVER. BUT THAT'S NOT ENOUGH!!! WE SHOULD HAVE JUST GIVEN HIM $4 MILLION MORE!!! EVEN IF HE IS WILLING TO PLAY FOR $18 MILL...JUST GIVE HIM THE $22
madmax.. my attendance argument was that I think you'd see the attendance drop BIG time without Roger. I don't think we draw 3 mil with no Roger. And no I wouldn't have just give him 22 mil, I'm just saying that number wasn't too far off base really. I could have seen another team offering him 20 mil if he was a free agent. One year deals are a lot different than multi year deals when injury is a bigger issue. If he was a free agent, there's no doubt in my mind you'd have had several teams jump at Roger for a one year deal at 18 mil.
MAX, McLane could have offered $30 million, but if Clemens had turned him down and retired, a lot of people here would still blame in on Mclane for not offering $40 mil. Let it go, and get yourself ready for some viewing parties somewhere. I'm down.
you're absolutely right...which brings me back to my initial point. it's never enough. sign the Cy Young winner to the largest contract in MLB history for a single-season pitcher. eh. no biggie.
Fine you win, I'll give him credit for signing Roger. But I'll bash him for the fact that we still had one of the worst offseasons in the league.
would you have based him if they hadn't pursued beltran? be honest...if they had signed players to the exclusion of beltran?
madmax. I don't think I'd have bashed him all that much really, because when we traded for him I remember them saying straight out on radio interviews etc that we probably wouldn't be keeping him. I wouldn't have been as dissapointed because they told us straight out from the time we got him that he was basically just a rental. So when I was watching him in the playoffs etc I was already pretty much accepting the fact that he'd be gone. Just like I didn't bash him when Randy left, because we knew from day 1 he was just a rental. Honestly even more than Kent and Beltran, as we discussed in the playoff thread months ago I was more worried about our bullpen. Even if we didn't go out and sign big name guys while we were after Beltran, I think we could have at least done some stuff to our bullpen. That is what annoys me, that we didn't seem to look at other areas at all during the whole Beltran thing.
From the AP article previously posted: I think this summarizes the feeling of those not in the optimist camp. The Clemens signing was awesome, but it has still been a very disappointing offseason overall. You're not going to convince people otherwise. And frankly, AP isn't exactly known as a biased source. The national impression is that the Astros have had a very poor offseason, even with re-signing Clemens. Again, there's still time to improve the results via trade or FA.
sam.. yes that's my issue. It's hard for me to give much credit until our offseason gets at least to the decent level. There were 3 big issues this offseason. Kent, Beltran, Roger, and Bullpen at least for me. We know 2 of those are gone, and the bullpen help is less likely each passing day. Everyone should have expected us to l ose Beltran, but I don't think we should have expected to lose both Beltran and Kent.
