.. and it's starting to look bad on Landry too, I think. He needs to step in here and get himself a deal and put a stop to BAker making Landry come off as a prima donna.
Why do clutchfans continue to get their panties in a bunch over the Landry situation. Have you guys never been involved in any business negotiation at all, or have any appreciation for that? No, this does not make landry seem like an ahole. Definitely not Landry. No, Baker is not being an a hole. He's trying to do his job. No, Morey isn't being an a hole. he's trying to do his job. Everybody is doing their jobs. Debate the effectiveness of the techniques used if you like, but quit making it personal or calling folks aholes.
Landry played great last year and I'd love to see a return of that, but if he has bad knees and wants a fat contract, send him packing. Who wants a player with bad knees? The money could be spent elsewhere. If Carl was smart he'd take a lesser contract, have the Rockets get his knees healthy, get back on the court ASAP and prove that he's under paid. At the end of 08'-09' season he will be a unrestricted free agent, and that's where he can get paid. When he proves his knees are healthy and what he did last year was no fluke.
If Landry's knees are somewhat questionable, they maybe the long-term option is best for him, in his agents eyes...You have to follow the money...Some players don't have long-term careers...I'd love to have him, but the longer its drawn out, the more I don't care..
It's funny how Baker gets all the blame for a situation that is Morey's making. He's refraining from offering a competitive price so that (1) Landry signs a deal with someone else that the Rockets can match (a rarity) or (2) the money all dries up and Landry is forced to sign an under-market contract (the likely result in most RFA deals). Not that I'm blaming Morey either. The restricted status further distorts the market and artificially lowers Landry's value by creating an unequal playing field between teams. Morey is trying to get a contract signed at the artificial value, since that is what the market dictates. Baker wants a contract at what the real market value would be; he'll probably lose to the market, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't try. I really hate restricted free agency; it should be abolished, imo. It forces good players to take below-value contracts. And, I don't know if I like Morey's approach. If it turns acrimonious, Landry can do things to spite the Rockets, even at his own detriment -- like take the qualifying offer and leave after the season, or go play in Europe now. Even if he signs a contract, it could still hurt morale that he feels he was taken advantage of by the team. It wouldn't be the first time that a team pissed off an RFA too much with negotiations to salvage the relationship.
I don't think that is true. A player is going to get whatever the market is willing to pay for him. If he accepts an offer from a team, then he believes that is his worth. So it doesn't matter if his former team takes on the contract or not, that's what his market value is. Perceived value isn't necessarily actual value. Whatever the market will pay for you is your actual value.
Very well put, my thoughts exactly. I'm interested in what Dorsey can do for this team off the bench. Even my grandfather, former assistant at UCONN, says he is legit, and has the tools to make it on the NBA level. He compared him to a Charles Oakley, Anthony Mason, and Ben Wallace. I was pleased to hear that, as our team has been soft in the past fews years.
True, but it seems he isn't being reasonable. Why would we offer guaranteed money to a guy with a potentially serious injury? By him not letting Landry get the scope it screams loud and clear "somethings wrong with his knee". He would definitely have an offer from us or another team (Pacers) if he was 100% so why else not let him get it?
In the case of an RFA, the non-incumbent team has to pay Landry's salary and incur the risk of not having the money available for another opportunity for a week. And, Landry incurs some risk from not knowing which team he'd end up working for. You have to add the monetization of those risks to the money they pay Landry to sum up to the market price. Landry wants the entire market price as money in his contract, but some of it gets burned away in risk. So, there ends up being a gap between what his market value would be as a UFA and what it is as an RFA.
The risk is part of analyzing his value, yes, but it's minimal. What is one week of risk compared to getting a player that you want to improve your team at a price you are willing to pay? There is not a lot of risk involved for Landry other than him not knowing his own value and signing a contract for less than he could have gotten from another team. That's why you have an agent who can supposedly gauge your market value so that doesn't happen. Any contract you sign with a team is a risk, but lack of information is the cause, not the RFA status.
I would think so too, but how often do you see teams sign RFAs to qualifying offers? It's pretty rare. There might be some collusion to keep prices down -- an understanding between GMs to not bid up other people's RFAs or else yours will get bid up. Honestly, I don't understand why teams don't do it more. In the first days of free agency when there are full-MLE guys on the market, sure. But, by now teams should be taking fliers on RFAs. So far this offseason, I think there has only been one RFA to sign a qualifying offer with another team. It is obvious that teams are very discouraged when it comes to stealing RFAs, and not a good mechanism for determining fair value.
There is a large difference in age of posters here, many people with business sense or experience understand this is typical. Others, not so much. DD
I have to disagree. What's really left on the free agent market? If a team thinks Landry is worth $4M/Yr, then why in the world wouldn't they make him an offer? What's the downside? So your $4M is possibly tied up for a week, who are you going to lose out on? If teams were that concerned with having their money tied up for 7 days, then why haven't they used that $4M for the last month? It's not like the remaining FAs are getting snapped up each day. I also think the risk of Landry not knowing which team he'd end up working for is pretty minimal. a) If the Rockets want him and he wants to play in the NBA, then he'll play in Houston next season. It's not up to him. b) If he signs an offer sheet, then he has then limited his possible destinations to two. That's doesn't seem so overwhelming. If say Indiana thought Landry was worth $4M/Yr then they'd make him an offer immediately. Sure the Rockets could match, but Landry would still end up getting his "market value". I think the real issue is that Landry's true market value is below what his agent is seeking. A players market value is nothing more than the most that any team is willing to pay. Azibuke, Josh Smith and Turief were all restricted free agents that received offers. So why didn't the system prevent them from getting market value offers? The fact is teams thought those guys were worth specific amounts and they made offers. That set their market value. Two of the prior teams matched and one didn't. If Landry's market value is higher than what the Rockets are offering, then another team will sign him to an offer sheet. If nobody is willing to offer that much, then it's not market value. It's also confusing that you can say " Morey is trying to get a contract signed at the artificial value, since that is what the market dictates. Baker wants a contract at what the real market value would be;". Since we have no idea what the Rockets have offered Landry nor do we have a clue as to what other teams would be willing to pay Landry (his market value) how can you make that assessment?
how can this Young guy afford to fly to China for this? Thats why buddy boy is holding Landry hostage....he wants that cut......... If I was Landry I still would fire him for opening his mouth without the proof that the rockets were trying to drive his weak kneed stock down.That was weak....he's going to regret that statement I guarantee unless Landry drops him now and complies with what is reasonable. If he doesn't expect him to be sitting out the season or signed and traded in Dec., hopefully I'm wrong but not at the expense of our payroll. Its all business sure, but going public with unsubstantiated claims is bad business wise and sabotaging another players worth is done everyday in the NBA when there are doubts that the player has not answered.
Not here. Here we get to say what we feel and what we want. And what we really want is to be accepted and wanted back. Get in front of a mic and camera somewhere and say "I don't wanna play anywhere else. I'm gonna be rocket soon. I love Houston" something. Deke did. PR is part of the biz to. You keep letting your Buddy talk to the public about all these options you have. After awhile the masses get tired of the threats and are ready to show you the door as soon as you make a mistake. Ohh yeah on Dorsey lets get it done (had to say something about him its his thread)
One issue with Landry is he is so hard to determine his market value. In his corner he played very effective most of his rookie minutes, and exceptional PER (statistics bore out his play). On the other hand he only averaged 17 MPG and has only played 42 NBA in his career. On top he has an injury history and was an old rookie (24). Put everything together and I think his market value should fall between Hayes and Scola. I am sure Landry and his agent are pushing for more, but in the end they have a weak case. Further, look, Josh Smith got an offer as an RFA. If Landry was such a sure commodity he would be getting teams trying to find a number the Rockets wouldn't match. There is no collusion going on, I don't think anyone wants to take on the risk with big money involved. It has more to do with the salary cap and teams trying to use their money wisely than RFA status. Finally, on Dorsey. Two year min deal is what he should get. Probably the Rockets want a team option (non-guaranteed 2nd year, where he wants it fully guaranteed) Maybe we will use some of the MLE after the Landry thing is settled to make a low cost 3rd year team option, but there is no big reason to do that for most 2nd rounders/it is a minor luxury to do that if you otherwise have less a million left of the MLE and want to find a purpose for it.
Morey is just waiting to see what other teams are willing to shell out for landry. you dont just giveout the whole MLE if he isnt gonna get the same amount elsewhere. just the fact landry hasnt even recived a concreate offer uptodate tells me that teams are not gonna give him anything near the MLE.
