1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Four charged over JFK 'bomb plot'

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Ubiquitin, Jun 2, 2007.

  1. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2006
    Messages:
    21,543
    Likes Received:
    3,384
    no, i dont mind an argument just for an argument, but its all about moderation i suppose.

    i dont know...have you been a jerk today? :cool:
     
  2. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    11,064
    Likes Received:
    8
    All I can say about this thread is, Oh the irony..

    Its wrong to call people like Imus and George Allen racists when they make racist statements but its right to generalize that Muslims as a whole are terrorist sympathizers because in some people's opinion they haven't spoken out strongly enough against extremists.

    The irony.. The irony...
     
  3. NewYorker

    NewYorker Ghost of Clutch Fans

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2002
    Messages:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    41
    No one saying it's right to generalize that Muslims as a whole are terrorist sympathizers. But that's what happens when there is no movement to speak out. That is the perception that will and has developed. It's a fact that people are doing it - and it's on the level of 40% of Americans now. Now - you can say what ever you like, but that's the cold reality.

    Why can't you understand that? Or do you refuse to because it's me who is posting it? That's what I think. And by the way, there are many Muslims who do express sympathy for terrorists and their causes. Not as much as in 2003, but still not insignificant or "Just a handful". I think you just are deperately trying to find a way to call me out.
     
  4. omair

    omair Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2002
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    2
    There are plenty of movements and organizations that are out against the terrorists.
    There are scholars here and in the middle east who declare "fatwas" against the terrorists.
    There are organizations in the US such as CAIR who try to get their message of peace and reason out.
    There are organizations in Houston such as the Islamic Society of Greater Houston, which, if you are curious enough to go to, spend most of the friday sermons discussing peace and reason, and loving the people who are interact with.
    At UT i have given plenty of news interviews reagarding "hot" Islamic topics, such as the Pope's comments last year or the war, only to watch later and see my interview changed to make it look like a terrorist apologist who enjoys violence.

    My point is, there are so many genuine Muslims who are against terror, but thier message is never shown. But what makes me proud of them, despite the fact they are disrespected, they continue trying, with different avenues, to get their message across. Hopefully one day people will get to see that Muslims are different from the terrorists.

    But since when have we wanted to hear about peaceful muslims??? :rolleyes:
     
  5. NewYorker

    NewYorker Ghost of Clutch Fans

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2002
    Messages:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    41
    Yeah, and CAIR and the Fiqh Council - who issued this "fatwa" were both linked to terrorist organizations and have been implicated in terrorist plots. SOme of them are serving prison terms. Guess you felt it necessary to leave that out. It's membership has dropped 45% in the last few years. So not exactly the best organization to use.

    I don't doubt your intent is sincere though, and I commend you and other Muslims for trying - afterall, it's really for your benefit as much as anyone elses.

    I mean, the voice of Islam has gone from Mubarak to Arafat to Bin Laden to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. What world Islamic leader is saying something powerful and marching against terrorism?

    When there was that big protest that some Islamic organization tried to organize a few years ago in a march against terrorism, all these so called anti-terrorist groups including CAIR boycotted it and refused to partcipate. Issuing a "fatwa" that doens't even name anyone as responsible is a joke.
     
  6. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Messages:
    17,466
    Likes Received:
    11,941
    Are you for real? You must know more about Islam than anyone else on Earth. I have news for you: The ONLY voice for Islam is the Qur'an. THE ONLY VOICE.

    Since you're calling out CAIR based on allegations made of funding terrorism, do you believe Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon is a terrorist since the same allegations were made about him?

    [​IMG]

    PS - Are you even a Rockets fan?
     
  7. NewYorker

    NewYorker Ghost of Clutch Fans

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2002
    Messages:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    41
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but folks in the heartland aren't reading the Qur'an in mass droves. The voice of Islam to many many Americans is bin Laden and other extremists. This is what you can not comprehend and what you are blind to. Just because you feel the voice of Islam should be the Qur'an and peaceful Muslims that doesn't mean anything.


    This is such a weak and small thing to do. It's also classless. You've proven you'll stoop to pretty low means to attack the person you are debating with and can not discuss things in a civil fashion.

    In fact, Hakeem would be ashamed of you as a Muslim the way you are defending terrorists and attacking people. If you hold Islam so highly in terms of it's teaching, you sure are a poor example of it. Maybe you should go back and read your qu'ron before you write your posts. I thought Islam taught respect - did you skip that lesson?
     
  8. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,410
    Likes Received:
    15,843
    So you're saying its the Muslims' fault that some Americans are ignorant? Nothing like pointing fingers and blaming everyone else, eh?
     
  9. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    11,493
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    Maybe you should go tie down your trailer. I hear the winds are going to be strong tonight.
     
  10. NewYorker

    NewYorker Ghost of Clutch Fans

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2002
    Messages:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    41
    Nope, that's not what I am saying.
     
  11. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Messages:
    17,466
    Likes Received:
    11,941
    The face of Islam to these people are Bin Laden etc because of people like you. People are lazy, and they do not seek out the truth about anything. BUT - Ignorance does not equate truth. For you to insinuate this would mean that you don't even actually believe in what you post. It means you're just some ass who has nothing better to do than criticize Muslims and Islam on a forum about Houston Rockets Basketball. Any student who has learned about Islam in a high school social studies class will know that Qu'ran is the authority of Islam. They do not need to read the Qur'an to understand this, just as someone would not need to read the Torah to understand that Jews do not eat pork. Why don't Rushdie and you go out for coffee sometime? At least you can make money off of your extreme views for other Islamophobes with that ass. In addition, you have failed to address any points made by any of the posters here. You attack my debating style, but you do not actually engage in debate? We have shown numerous times that there is an effort by orthodox Muslims to condemn terrorism, and yet you call it off as they're funding terrorism - WITHOUT CITING ANY SOURCES.

    As for Hakeem, I am sure he could not be prouder of what I am doing right now. In case you didn't know, Hakeem is an orthodox Muslim. He has donated millions of dollars to Islamic charities including his own -- THE SAME CHARITIES YOU DESCRIBE AS BEING FOR TERRORISM. You have completely avoided the issue altogether: how convenient. Do you believe that the Dream and CAIR fund terror, or that your "argument" falls apart like a house of cards.

    Finally, if you do not like the Houston Rockets then I will say this on behalf of all of the other posters: Leave. You do not belong here. Your posting to incite trouble is not welcome here. I mistook your dialouge for actual debate. You are an Internet Troll, and this is my last post directed towards you.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Nice Rollin

    Nice Rollin Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,856
    Likes Received:
    321
    Bin Laden is not the voice of Muslim people. He is the voice of Muslim extremists who want to convert the whole world. Unfortunately, the extremists make the religion look bad.
     
  13. NewYorker

    NewYorker Ghost of Clutch Fans

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2002
    Messages:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    41
    That's my point - that bin laden's voice is what people hear. Couple that with terrorism, what the palestians do, all the violence from Kashmir to Sudan to Russia to guys like Iranian political leaders and the average person starts seeing Islam in a negative way.

    And there's no counterbalance against that. NO other side gets presented. All you have is Muslims calling the media propanganda and attacking anyone who is critical of Muslims. Then you have morons who assume that if you criticize Muslims for failing to produce any great moderate or progressive leaders as having to life in a trailer park and that they must think Hakeem is a sucicide bomber.

    What morons. My ignore list grew a lot today.
     
  14. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    18,265
    Likes Received:
    13,501
  15. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Messages:
    17,466
    Likes Received:
    11,941
    Thank you for posting this survey. I really enjoyed seeing 85% of those nations polled do not support Al Qaeda and believe their actions are unIslamic, and 95% do not see justification in attacking civilians. How quaint.
     
  16. Nice Rollin

    Nice Rollin Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,856
    Likes Received:
    321
    I totally agree with you. It doesnt seem that the "Good Muslims" speak out and do much against the extremists. I think i made the point earlier, look at the president of Pakistan...Musharaf (sp) doesnt do jack to stop al-queda and we just kiss his ass, while he steals our money and acts like our best friend. It seems like they could care less. Pakistan doesnt give their best effort to stop these groups or find Bin Laden. There is no propaganda about what happened on Saturday. They were Muslim terrorists...
     
  17. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2002
    Messages:
    15,557
    Likes Received:
    17
    I pray at the alter of Mubarak and Musharraf every single day...oh, those holy men of God! Inshallah, they shall restore the Caliphate, but first they must wipe out those Brotherhood infidels, and suppress all jihadist movements that seek to return the Ummah back to the dark age of secularism.

    Praise be to Allah!
     
  18. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,873
    Likes Received:
    36,436
    Sorry to drag this thread back on topic, but anyway these guys were apparnetly yet another keystone kops type outfit with very little capability to do any of the things they planned - that the government spent a lot of time and money investigating (and quite possibly instigating via its undercover operatives).

    I get worried about stings like this and the similar one from Miami last year (which had no chance of success and that the government spent a lot of time aiding and abetting where the government seems obsessed with picking the low hanging fruit and devotes a lot of resources to the easy cases which present little or no danger and ignore the harder ones.
     
  19. NewYorker

    NewYorker Ghost of Clutch Fans

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2002
    Messages:
    6,130
    Likes Received:
    41
    Now that's actually a decent argument.
     
  20. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Messages:
    17,466
    Likes Received:
    11,941
    I guess it was propoganda afterall... At least it was exposed propoganda rather than actions.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now