Aren't you an Indian? Oh, wait, you're not. I am glad that I represent mainstream Islam to you. You are futher affirming my point. Islam is a faith of billions. Do you consider me your "one Muslim friend"? PS - Way to link me to Al Qaeda, you must be a journalist.
What about in 2003, when the Bush govt. said there were 5 Muslim men who secretly crossed the border from Canada to the USA and were planning attacks dirty bomb attacks? They closed down NYC Harbor due to this. But it was later found out that one of the men who they were looking for was actually a fat guy running a jewelry shop. He was still in Pakistan, and never had even been to America. The others were never even found. Conveniently the media never reported this development and no one heard any end to this story from the Bush White House. You are getting caught up in the lies and propaganda the White House puts out to keep like you scared and on a constant state of paranoia. Read more about manufactured terror alerts here: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30312
Here are a couple more you may want to look into: 1993 WTC bombing Khobar Towers 1998 United States embassy bombings USS Cole 2001 attacks on WTC, Pentagon, and third target, probably the US Capitol
I'm not sure I understand what we're debating here. Unless we're being lied to...these guys were Muslims seeking to stick it to the US by blowing up jet fuel. One official described them as Al Qaeda wannabes. What are we debating?
The typical D&D stuff as to whether the root cause of these terrorists is actually the Muslim religion itself. Anti Muslim : " All these terrorists are Muslims" Muslims : " It is not indicative of our religion" Anti : "Well then how to you explain that they are all Muslim, can't you see the problem?" Muslim " What problem? You are talking about a few extremists" Anti " Clearly the religion spawns the extremists" Muslim " We aren't blowing up abortion clinics, and what about the IRA and OK City" Anti " By not standing up to Al Quieda you are a closest supporter" Muslim " The US is the root cause of all of this..." Yadda...yadda...yadda... Wash, rinse, repeat.... DD
I am angry that people are so quick to paint any criminal actions perpetrated as being Islamic in nature. Take NewYorker, for example. He believes that the reason some people choose to act irrationally is because not enough Muslims are apologizing. I think, however, that these actions will persist since the media portraying Muslims as murderers convinces those angry individuals to become the stereotype. In all, I am more concerned about the plot. Not the race or religion of who was planning it.
No one is anti Muslim. We're just pointing out that there is a lot of Muslims, majorities infact in some countries - that support these fanatics as freedom fighters against the west and this is in turn makes people think Islam and terrorism is linked. I don't think it's Islam spawning it alone, it's a number of factors - one of which is the Muslim complacency and inability to be introspective about their religious institutions and what is going on.
Nope, just a few idiots make those assumptions. But since most Indians don't make excuses for terrorists, and we don't praise Bin Laden or hang pictures up on our walls, people don't think so badly of us. Strange huh? If Muslims declared a jihad on terrorism, maybe people would start to think that Muslims actually were good people trying to fight the bad apples. But that's not what's happening. What's happening is that Muslims are just blaming the west as the root of all the problems and saying you deal with it - it's your problem and your media is lying. Frankly, I have no sympathy for anyone who just points the finger at someone else.
We are debating whether or not Islam and Muslims deserve the portrayel they get in the media. I think they do since too many muslims support terrorism and guys like Bin Laden, and in fact do hate and resent the west. I think the Media portrays that accurately. Sure it might only be 50% of Muslims who feel that way, but look on this board, even the Muslim posters here are very much blame the west and terrorism is all Bush's fault and had nothing to do with our religious institutions.
Me neither. People who would just point the finger at all Muslims for the problems of extremists deserve no sympathy or support for their ignorant statements such as: I really wonder how you feel about all those Muslims who feel Bin Laden is a hero. Are you one of them? ... You're a big part of the reason why Muslims are protrayed the way they are in media ironically. ... Well - at least we know why Muslims don't do much - they are all in denial and think they have already done enough. ... But we are all threatned and at risk by Islamic Fanatics - including you Nothing like ignorantly stereotyping people and pointing the finger at the them as the cause of all your problems.
Those statements are true. Even Muslism are threatned by Islamic fanatics. Why you don't see that amazes me. Do you think these extremists are only going to kill non-Muslims? And you call me ignorant for that? Muslims are in denial. How many Muslims have come out and said "we as Muslims need to change our institutions so they don't encourage hate or intolerance in places like Saudia Arabia, Palestine, and Iran"? How many here have said that Muslims shouldn't listen to anyone who preaches that nonMuslims are off the path? Christians should do it to but you know what, it's Muslims who are blowing up buildings and ploting to kill right now, not Christians. And yes, it's folks like Azarde who just point the finger on others that creates an air of nonaccountability that results in the impression that Muslims are not doing enough. I'm not the only one here - writers such as Freedman and other moderates feel the same way.
who wants to bet that the fbi either had informants working with these guys or were directly helping them? remember the young street kids (most of whom had mental problems) from miami last year who were supposedly an al-queda cell, but were actually being funded by fbi agents, who bought their video recording equipment and told them which federal buildings to go videotape so they could later use that as evidence against them. they were also charged w/ swearing an oath to al-queda, but the guy they swore the oath to was an undercover agent who had told them to swear the oath to him. or the 9/11 hijackers who were living with an fbi informant in san diego in 2000 and 2001.
The thread starter said it seemed like propaganda that the media was reporting that Muslims were trying to blow up a huge chunk of New York. What more do you need?
This kind of crap will never end. We should just start profiling brown people otherwise this crap will go on and on... Profiling is the only way...
I think most Muslims living in America are saying "Thats not what Islam teaches. Those are extremists and not practicing what the religion really teaches." That's all they can say. There is NO action for a change. Even if there was, you cant change a person's belief....Some things are too strict and too hardcore. I've seen Muslim women here who have to wear the clothes where you cant see anything but their eyes. We saw that woman who was stoned to death by her own uncle for marrying outside of her religion. You cant change the way people think, and thats why i think that no matter how many people speak out about how the extremists are wrong, it wont make a difference. The President of Pakistan doesnt even give a damn about Al-Queda and terrorists. We pay Pakistan billions of dollars to help us find terrorists, and they help harbor these guys. This will never end...America just has to start profiling against brown people, and those coming from Islamic countries...
Inner workings of twisted plan How gang of fanatics hatched mission code-named 'The Chicken Farm' BY TRACY CONNOR DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...7-06-03_inner_workings_of_twisted_plan-8.html The met at the Gertz Plaza Mall, a small shopping center in the Jamaica section of Queens, one day last July. Russell Defreitas was a retired cargo worker allegedly trying to put together a team to mount a terrorist attack on Kennedy Airport. The other man was an informant, a convicted drug trafficker working undercover for the FBI, hoping to befriend Defreitas. The first encounter went smoothly and it wasn't long before Defreitas, a Guyanese-born U.S. citizen, was confiding in his new buddy. With dazzling speed, a discussion about the civil war in Lebanon led to talk of an audacious terrorist plot, authorities said. It was followed by cryptic phone calls and meetings with shadowy characters and a series of trips to Guyana and Trinidad. Month by month, the plot moved forward - with the informant recording the incriminating chatter on tape and feeding the evidence to his handlers. That evidence, laid out in a 30-page criminal complaint detailed here, left no doubt that Defreitas, a graying 63-year-old from East New York, Brooklyn, was thirsty for the blood of Americans. "Even the twin towers can't touch it," he is said to have boasted of his plan last month. The Sept. 11, 2001, attacks appear to have been a benchmark for Defreitas from the start. Last August, as the informant cozied up to him, Defreitas remarked during a chat about Lebanon that Muslims always incur the "wrath of the world" while Jews get a "pass." The informant agreed, and Defreitas upped the ante, confessing, "He had a vision that would make the World Trade Center attack seem small." He gave no details but when the two men met the next day, Defreitas divulged that he had vetted the informant and decided he was "the right man for the job." He didn't say what the job was, but specifics soon trickled out. On Aug. 7, as they ran errands, Defreitas told the informant about "brothers" from Guyana and Trinidad who would come to New York for something "bigger than the World Trade Center." The next day, he indicated there was a "cell" of a half-dozen men targeting Kennedy Airport and looking for a New Yorker to join the nefarious scheme. When Defreitas traveled to Guyana in mid-August, the informant kept in touch. On Sept. 10, Defreitas put him on the phone with a Guyanese national who asked a startling question: "Would you like to die as a martyr?" The FBI's man gave the answer he thought they wanted - that martyrdom was the greatest way to die in Islam. A couple of weeks later, the informant joined Defreitas in Guyana and began attending meetings with some of his cronies where "jihad" was discussed. At a session in October, one of the Guyanese men talked about his wish to attack the U.S. "where it would inflict the most harm" and discussed blowing up the fuel lines at Kennedy Airport. Another man, a businessman from the Guyanese capital, Georgetown, readily joined the plot and even came up with code names to discuss the operation. He also bragged of his friendship with a leader in Jamaat al Muslimeen, a violent Muslim extremist group in Trinidad. He offered to have an associate, Abdel Nur, go to Trinidad and set up a meeting with the Jamaat boss. Throughout October, November and December, Defreitas and his accomplices continued to meet about JFK, while the informant returned to New York and was kept up to date by telephone. At the start of the new year, Defreitas was dispatched to New York to conduct surveillance on the airport. Back in the city, he once again confided in the informant, explaining why he was so bent on blowing up Kennedy Airport. His hatred had been roused when he worked for Evergreen International Aviation years earlier and saw missiles being shipped to Israel that he believed would be used to kill Muslims. He "wanted to do something to get those bastards," he said, according to the complaint. And now he hit the ground running. He and the informant made four trips to JFK in January. Defreitas showed him fuel tanks that could be blown up, escape routes and holes in security. They taped some of the locations. During the forays, the retiree also revealed that the Georgetown businessman they had met was firmly on board. "[He] really wants to get this thing going," he said. "He's very sincere about it...but he wants to get it done the right way. He doesn't want to regret starting something that we can't finish." One night, the pair called the businessman to give him a status report. Defreitas commented that he had seen televangelist Pat Robertson on TV predicting disaster would hit the U.S. "So he's probably not too far off, huh?" Defreitas devilishly cracked. On the other end of the line, the businessman laughed. By now, the informant had completely ingratiated himself with Defreitas, who bared his twisted soul. He confided that he fantasized about attacking Kennedy Airport long before 9/11, when he was an employee at the cargo company. "These things used to come into my brain - well, I could blow this place up," he said. "I could make a bomb. I could knock this place... "I would sit and see a plane taxiing up the runway and I would say, if I could get a rocket, then I could do a hit....But I had no connections with no Arabs or nobody." But now Defreitas had a whole team behind him and on Jan. 14, he and the informant returned to Guyana to show off their handiwork - the JFK videos. But cracks in the coalition were beginning to show. One of the conspirators began to suspect another was a spy for the Guyanese government. The Georgetown businessman tried to back out after an argument with Defreitas and the informant. Defreitas was undeterred and pressed his goal of getting to Trinidad to meet with the Jamaat extremist leader. He contacted associates in Guyana and in February, one of them put him in touch with Abdul Kadir - a member of parliament with purported ties to Middle East militants. After viewing the Kennedy Airport videos, Kadir was so enthusiastic about the plan, he code-named it "The Chicken Farm" so they could continue to discuss it, the feds said. But he also had concerns. He explained "that his associates had their own rules of engagement and wanted to minimize the killing of innocents, such as women and children," the criminal complaint said. The attack should take place in the early morning and focus on infrastructure, he suggested. Kadir also revealed he knew the Jamaat leader - so Defreitas decided that he, not Abdel Nur, should make the introduction. In April - after Defreitas and the informant had come back to New York - Kadir agreed on the phone to travel with them to Trinidad to meet the big man. The New Yorkers went back to Guyana last month for more meetings with Kadir, who viewed their videos and satellite photos. He was an engineer by training, and he believed that it would take two explosions to blow up the tanks in the photos because they were insulated. Although he backed out of going to Trinidad with them and Nur, Kadir said he phoned his "brothers" there about the Jamaat powwow. "They've arranged meetings for when you go there," he told them, authorities said. At the same time, he warned that the Trinidadian militant was "hot" and under surveillance because of his ties to Libyan leader Moammar Khadafy. "If you get to meet, be very careful what you tell him," Kadir cautioned. "He's not going to open up to you." As it turned out, Defreitas and the informant never got to meet the Jamaat leader. They did fly to Trinidad on May 20 and were put up by an associate of Kadir, Kareem Ibrahim, who took them to the Jamaat compound two days later. When they arrived, they were met by Nur, who said he had been there for two days and had already presented the terror plan. The organization wanted to talk more about it. But Defreitas was starting to get cold feet, worried that Jamaat might turn on them. And Ibrahim, their new contact in Trinidad, agreed. He told them to leave the plan in his hands to present to other fanatics he knew. Defreitas and the informant returned to New York - and there was one more phone call with their new contact. Last Sunday, Ibrahim spoke with Defreitas and the informant and said things were progressing, that he was sending an emissary to his overseas contacts to present the plan. Defreitas said he was happy. But that didn't last long. After 10 months of eavesdropping on the plotters as they moved ever closer to the sinister goal, the feds were ready to make their move. On Friday, as he and the informant met at the Lindenwood Diner in Brooklyn, the authorities arrested him. His carefully laid plans had crumbled.
Edward Said is one voice for sure. But he's not the final say. But I will say that the media probably does jump on the Islamic terrorist story a lot faster then anything else - because it's sensational and sells to a scared and distrustful public. Are muslims responsible for the actions of fanatics? Ok - they are not. But I will say this - Muslims don't do much to counterbalance those fanatics. When this country went to war in Iraq, there was a huge counterbalance to that. The liberals protested, marched, and did whatever they could. The Republican rightwingers are balanced by the left. Now - here we are seeing you have fanatical muslims, but you have no counter balance. Sure, you have the occasional Moderate condemning extremism - but it's no where near where it should be. Let's just say if Muslims wanted to improve their image in this country, they could do a lot by attacking the extremist element instead of trying to sell us Islam as peace and pointing the finger at Bush and Israel all the time.
We are already profiling "brown" people. Personally, I don't care if I get profiled as long as I don't miss my flight or whatever. Anyway - that's not what this debate is about. It's about the media presentation of Islam and whether or not Muslims have a control of that. If I were Muslim, I would do everything I could to fight fanaticism back in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Indonesia, or where-ever it's being preached. I wouldn't just say it's all Israel's and the media's bias. And I would say it's conspiracy therories. I'd either do something or I'd just shut-up and not complain. The worst are those that whine whine whine, but don't lift a finger to make a difference.
