Who knows what really happened? The guy who got his *ss saved is believable (and a Republican iirc). The other vets haven't had the same story the entire time, which calls their veracity into question. Which set of vets are we supposed to believe? and why? and does it really matter anyway after all of these years?
I'm sure there are many believable versions of what happened. In a situation like that so much happens so fast that there are bound to be distortions of perception and recollection. Just to be on that boat makes Kerry heroic to some degree. There are a lot of subtleties at play. Was the third PH intentionally inflicted or registered to provide a way out and to create a credentialed war hero who could go home and launch a political carrer as a VVAW founder? That is a legitimate question because that is what happened-- other than knowing the entirety of the motive. Kerry's problem is that he has tried to portray himself as John Wayne when he may well not have been. Why didn't he just downplay it the way the Bush 41 did? If you really are a hero, you don't have to promote yourself as one.
That's right and those vets who were within hailing distance of Kerry, gave him glowing appraisal at the time the incidents occurred. They wrote favorably about Kerry, and their facts supported other navy reports. However recently three decades after the events actually occurred they changed their tune.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...040821kerry,1,6814873.story?coll=chi-news-hed Wow. Maybe we can get back to what GW was doing during the war now. Or better yet, how about the ISSUES.
JOHN KERRY'S WAR RECORD Swift boat skipper: Kerry critics wrong Tribune editor breaks long silence on Kerry record; fought in disputed battle Indeed Cohen what was George W. Bush doing during the Vietnam War? It's unlikely we'll ever get an answer to this simple question.
He didn't come out and join Kerry's band of brothers as a supporter in any of his previous campaign stops and strategies involving Vets. The guy has been silent about it for 35 years, and hasn't talked about it. I have no idea what his party affiliation is.
U.S. Navy Swift boat skippers John F. Kerry, left, and William B. Rood at their base in An Thoi, South Vietnam, in late February 1969 after military action for which Kerry was awarded the Silver Star and Rood the Bronze Star. (Courtesy Of William B. Rood) Boats Thrown Into Fight When Kerry signed up to command a Swift boat in the summer of 1968, he was inspired by the example of his hero, John F. Kennedy, who had commanded the PT-109 patrol boat in the Pacific in World War II. But Kerry had little expectation of seeing serious action. At the time the Swift boats -- or PCFs (patrol craft fast), in Navy jargon -- were largely restricted to coastal patrols. "I didn't really want to get involved in the war," Kerry wrote in a book of war reminiscences published in 1986. The role of the Swift boats changed dramatically toward the end of 1968, when Adm. Elmo R. Zumwalt Jr., commander of U.S. naval forces in South Vietnam, decided to use them to block Vietcong supply routes through the Mekong Delta. Hundreds of young men such as Kerry, with little combat experience, suddenly found themselves face to face with the enemy. Taking a 50-foot aluminum boat up a river or canal was replete with danger, ranging from ambushes to booby traps to mines. Kerry and his comrades would experience all these risks on March 13, 1969. The purpose of the mission was twofold: to insert pro-government forces upriver in a group of Vietcong-controlled villages; and more generally to show the flag, keeping the waterways free for commerce. In some ways, it was a day like any other. The previous day, Kerry had taken part in a Swift boat expedition that had come under fire, and several windows of Kerry's boat were blown out. A friend, Lt. j.g. William B. Rood, almost lost an eye in the ambush. [Now an editor with the Chicago Tribune, Rood yesterday broke three decades of public silence to support Kerry's version of how he won the Silver Star on Feb. 28. Rood has no firsthand knowledge of the Bronze Star incident.] In other respects, March 13 would mark the culmination of Kerry's Vietnam War career. With three Purple Hearts, he became eligible for reassignment. Within three weeks, he was out of Vietnam and headed home after a truncated four-month combat tour. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21239-2004Aug21.html
Dole blasts Kerry http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040822/D84KIAL00.html Dole Questions Kerry's Vietnam Wounds _ Aug 22, 6:59 PM (ET) By PETE YOST CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) - Former Republican Sen. Bob Dole suggested Sunday that John Kerry apologize for past testimony before Congress about alleged atrocities during the Vietnam War and joined critics of the Democratic presidential candidate who say he received an early exit from combat for "superficial wounds." Dole also called on Kerry to release all the records of his service in Vietnam. Separately, President Bush's re-election campaign continued to deny links to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, an anti-Kerry group running ads in three states, after the resignation of a campaign volunteer who appeared in the group's new ad. With Kerry taking a break from campaigning, running mate John Edwards said Bush needs to tell the group to pull its ads, a step the White House and the Bush campaign refuse to take. The White House and Bush's campaign note that Kerry has benefited from more than $62 million worth of similar advertising against the president. "This is the moment of truth for President Bush," Edwards said in North Carolina. "The American people have to hear directly that these ads need to come off the air." Kerry also fought back in another new ad. Dole told CNN's "Late Edition" that he warned Kerry months ago about going "too far" and that the Democrat may have himself to blame for the current situation, in which polls show him losing support among veterans. "One day he's saying that we were shooting civilians, cutting off their ears, cutting off their heads, throwing away his medals or his ribbons," Dole said. "The next day he's standing there, 'I want to be president because I'm a Vietnam veteran.' Maybe he should apologize to all the other 2.5 million veterans who served. He wasn't the only one in Vietnam," said Dole, whose World War II wounds left him without the use of his right arm. Dole added: "And here's, you know, a good guy, a good friend. I respect his record. But three Purple Hearts and never bled that I know of. I mean, they're all superficial wounds. Three Purple Hearts and you're out." Kerry campaign spokesman Chad Clanton said: "It's unfortunate that Senator Dole is making statements that official U.S. Navy records prove false. This is partisan politics, not the truth." Other Kerry supporters also rose to his defense. "Senator Kerry carries shrapnel in his thigh as distinct from President Bush who carries two fillings in his teeth from his service in the Alabama National Guard, which seems to be his only time that he showed up," John Podesta, former chief of staff in the Clinton White House, said on ABC's "This Week." Bush served stateside in the Guard during the Vietnam years. Podesta's reference was to the White House's release of documents earlier this year showing Bush's dental visits during his Guard years after questions arose about whether he had always reported for duty. Bush-Cheney campaign manager Ken Mehlman also blamed Kerry for the ongoing debate, complaining on NBC's "Meet the Press" that "Kerry himself has attacked the president for his service during the Vietnam years," while the Republican's campaign has "so strongly praised" Kerry's tour of duty in Vietnam. The Bush campaign also said the Federal Election Commission should immediately dismiss what it termed a "frivolous" complaint by Kerry's campaign alleging coordination between the re-election effort and the Swift Boat group. The White House and the Bush campaign for weeks have denied any connection to the Swift Boat organization, whose early financial support came largely from a prominent Texas businessman with longtime ties to the state's top Republicans, including Bush. The group's latest ad includes a Bush-Cheney volunteer, retired Air Force Col. Ken Cordier, condemning Kerry's 1971 congressional testimony that Dole spoke of. Cordier was a prisoner of war during Vietnam. "Colonel Cordier did not inform the campaign of his involvement in the advertisement," a Bush campaign statement said. "Because of his involvement Colonel Cordier will no longer participate as a volunteer for Bush-Cheney '04." A new Kerry TV ad urged the president to "denounce the smear" and 'get back to the issues" because America deserves better." The 30-second commercial, to air in the same three states as the Swift Boat group ad - Ohio, West Virginia and Wisconsin - compares Kerry's situation to the 2000 primary campaign when "Bush smeared John McCain." McCain has condemned the ads and called on the president to do so, too. In response, Bush's campaign released a copy of a letter it was sending to television station managers on Monday defending itself from the claims in the new Kerry ad. Questions mounted over the motives of Kerry's critics, two of whom had praised his service in 1996, even as Kerry's supporters faced questions about the candidate. Among the allegations is that Kerry lied about being in neutral Cambodia on Christmas Eve 1968. "I don't think anyone knows for sure whether or not they were in Cambodia that night, but they were near Cambodia on Christmas Eve," John Hurley, who heads a pro-Kerry veterans group, said on "Fox News Sunday.""He was five miles into Cambodia on a different occasion." Another allegation is that Kerry was not under enemy fire as after-action reports say he was, an incident for which he received a Bronze Star, one of five medals earned in Vietnam. "The after-action reports were written from Kerry's spot reports from that day," said Kerry critic Van Odell, also appearing on the same program. "None of us knew he even got the Bronze Star until more recently."
Watch McCain spank Bush. http://www.johnkerry.com/petition/oldtricks.php Old tricks, no doubt. It takes incredible gumption and amazing arrogance to attack patriots who risked their lives ... just because one's own privileged draft-dodging (essentially) is such an embarrassment.
The ironic thing is that he actually has as much firsthand, direct knowledge of these events as many of the Swift Boat Republicans for Bush, such as their leader, political "independent", yet former Nixon operative John O'Neill, who "served on John Kerry's boat" -- months after Kerry had left Vietnam.
If these scores of swift boat veterans that are coming out against Forbes Kerry are lying, then why isn't Forbes Kerry attacking their facts? Why doesn't Forbes Kerry put an end to all of it by releasing his military records, something easily achieved by signing the 180 form. He refuses to sign that form. He refuses to allow these veterans to debate him. He denies them their First Amendment right. Instead, he chooses to attempt to link Bush to the ads. Instead, he begs for Bush to stop the ads. Bush publicly denounced the ads at today's question and answer session in Crawford. Did Bush beg Kerry to denounce Michael Moore? What about after Kerry gave Moore a place of honor at the Democratic Convention next to Jimmy Carter? The fact of the matter is that Kerry's 'dirty work' as he calls it, has been advanced through over $60 million of 527 ads. The total bill for 527 ads attacking Kerry? Under $3 million. What hypocrisy from Kerry. It is so incredibly obvious to so many of us why Kerry went to Vietnam. He went their to advance his political career. It was a self-serving mission. He wrote up as many award papers as he could for disputed war scenes and superficial wounds. He left very very early on a technicality (3 cuts you're out). He made a mockery out of the Purple Heart recipients who actually bled, or lost the use of limbs (Dole for example). Dole's criticism of Kerry's wounds is devastating to him. Kerry gamed the system, plain and simple. But you see, this gaming of the system isn't the true issue. The true issue is Kerry making his Vietnam service the core of his campaign (John Kerry reporting for duty!). It's tantamount to a guy who cheats on a test and then brags about making an A. So why won't Kerry release all the medical reports associated with his wounds? That fraction of the reports on his website is a total joke. Why won't Kerry release his personal diary from Vietnam? Why won't Kerry dispute the statements of the swift boat vets? Why won't Kerry apologize for his comments post-war which were used to torture American POWs? Lots of questions, no answers. Just angry begging from the Kerry campaign. UNFIT TO LEAD
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Michael Moore was in fact 'seen' at the convention. He was one of the most publicized figures there! He was given a place of honor! Michael Moore could have easily been banned from the convention, however quite the opposite happened. You are dead wrong. Get your facts straight, outlaw.
seen but not allowed to speak is what he meant he was carters guest does kerry have power to ban people there
Well I'm glad you have a direct line into what Kerry actually meant versus what he actually said. I take it that you accept the rest of my original post, since you chose to only respond to a single line of it?
Now that Bush has officially come out and said the Swift ads, along with the others of similar nature from the other side, I'm not as fired up about this as I used to be. Let's bring on the debates where Bush can finish Kerry once and for all.
