Former Muslim says that ISIS represents true Islam

Who exactly, other than Assad and the Kurds?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/09/04/myth-tiny-radical-minority

 

BBC News - 'Iranian attack jets deployed' to help Iraq fight Isis

Hezbollah's War against ISIS | Foreign Policy Blogs
foreignpolicyblogs.com/2014/08/31/hezbollahs-war-against-isis/
Aug 31, 2014 - Despite Hezbollah's radical Islamist ideology, they are opposed to ISIS

Now with Turkey joining the NATO gravy train, effectively the northern half of Iraq's border states are all in active war with ISIS---and the southern half keeps on denouncing it.

Even A-Q is at war with ISIS. jesus. It's patently ridiculous to ask what the Muslim response has been to ISIS.

 

Unsubstantiated claim... carry on.

 

How is this much different from what Shi'ites and Sunnis have been doing for more than a while?

One group declares a leader, they other group denies that leader and claims their own.

 

So let's count ISIS and their enemies in the Middle East:

1) Saudi Arabia (nominally, king's warning to Europe and America, criminal punishment for joining ISIS)
2) Turkey (nominally, NATO coalition)
3) Lebanon (actively at war)
4) Hezbollah (actively at war)
5) Syria (actively at war)
6) Iran (actively at war)
7) Basically, all Shiites (actively at war)
8) Kurds (actively at war)
9) Religious Muslim minorities in Iraq (actively at war)
10) Muslim Brotherhood (fatwa)
11) Hamas (fatwa)
12) Al-Qaeda (split off/bad blood)

what oh what has the response been

 

nobody has declared themselves a caliph for decades.

Claiming to be a Caliph is a very very different thing from claiming regional supremacy.

 

Meh, reading comprehension has never been ATW's strong suite. There's a couple if different ways to go, but unless okie is interested, they won't be pursued.

 

Looks like someone is so frustrated from routinely getting owned that the spelling is getting worse...

 

Here's a few articles

http://www.loonwatch.com/2014/09/this-is-how-people-in-the-middle-east-are-making-fun-of-isis/

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/184534#.VA4wuFfgW8A

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...ect-baghdadi-caliphate-20147744058773906.html

http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/08/21/muslim-leaders-have-roundly-denounced-islamic-s/200498

Even in Syria IS appeals to only 4% of the Muslims there according to this poll.
http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld...is-isil-jihad-sharia-survey-poll-mosul-assad/
Someone else already posted a list of many of the groups and governments against ISIS in the Middle East.

 

As a side note, I will just say that I am not at all surprised that Syria really dislikes ISIS. Syria's population did not want anything other than a secular government with democratic elections.

As far as the rest of the Middle East. Having been there, I will say that the desire to have an Islamic state is fairly strong. I have met a number of people that wanted their land only ran by the law of Islam, but a majority of these people were very poor and not well educated. The wealthy only like the idea in so far as they can control the poor.

 

Thanks for the reply.

Seriously? You are quoting the "spiritual leader" of a known terrorist group who views himself as "moderate"?

Do you seriously believe that a serious poll is currently possible in Syria at all? Like...people would freely tell you their honest opinion? Come on...ISIS is cutting journalists' heads off! Or do you expect someone in Assad-controlled areas to tell you "I'm in favor of ISIS"? How naive can a person be?

It's fine and dandy that some Muslim leaders are denouncing what ISIS is doing, but you have to carefully read between the lines here: Do they disagree with the goals of ISIS or just with the methods?

This is a good comment under the article you are quoting:

I specifically asked you for polls or surveys which represent the actual opinion of the people and whether they agree or disagree with ISIS goals because you specifically posted:

You delivered:

- one fundamentalist cleric (Hamas' "spiritual leader" who thinks suicide bombings are A-ok) who thinks IS are a bit naughty
- a poll from Syria that cannot be taken seriously (we know that a lot of Sunnis in Iraq and Syria are collaborating with IS)
- some denouncements from some Muslim leaders

I'll give you some actual opinion polls (from 2013) from a reputable source.

Let's remember: What are the goals of IS?

- establishment of an Islamic caliphate (with borders as far-reaching as possible)
- implementation of strict Sharia law within this caliphate (with all the fun that comes with it - female genital mutilation, beheadings, crucifications, stonings, chopping off hands, etc.)

Now, let's see what Muslims' attitudes towards implementation of Sharia law are.





















Here is the source article:

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

Face it.

IS is implementing what a very large percentage of Muslims - especially in that region - want.

You can try to sugarcoat it and look through your naive Western Dhimmi leftist goggles.

But the numbers and facts are there.

This Brother Rachid guy is speaking the truth.

 

That was part of the point. When even the spiritual leader for Hamas is against IS, then they surely don't even have the support of groups that are known for taking extreme measures.

As far as the horrible stances on women's or homosexuals rights that many in the region hold, I'll never support that or defend it. It's certainly not something heading toward the path of enlightenment.

 

Read the numbers - I'll try to help you:

- 91 % in Iraq wanted the implementation of strict sharia law in 2013.
- About 40 % thought the country was not following sharia closely enough.
- Almost all of those who thought that were of the opinion that this was a bad thing and should be fixed (= stricter application of sharia laws).
- What does this mean? It means for more than 50 % of those people that people should be executed for theft, that adulterers should be stoned and for almost 50 % of people that the penalty for leaving Islam should be death (with the figures being even a lot more shocking in some of the other countries in that region).

That is exactly what IS is implementing!

How can you say

What you are saying is simply not true! The numbers prove it.

 

Are you aware that more than twice as many UK Muslims are fighting for IS than are enrolled in the British army? Is that a hint for you?

According to some poll, 16 % of French people support IS - although that seems high to me as that would probably mean about 100 % of Muslims in France support IS and then some - the trend is clear.

IS is being supported by a large percentage of Muslims in the Middle East and in Europe. They are not some isolated phenomenon.

Yes, you will get the occasional denouncement here and there. But do you see outrage? Outrage as you saw it when the Muhammad cartoons came out? Outrage as you see it when Israel fights back against Hamas? No, you don't see that outrage.

And I tell you why: Because a large number of Muslims agrees with the goals of IS. Some or many might think the methods to achieve the goals are not ok or excessively violent. But do most Muslims want Sharia law? Yes. Do they want it to be the supreme law of the land where they live? Yes. Do they already try to enforce it in the UK and even in Germany? Yes.

1 in 3 British Muslims back killing for Islam and 40 % want Sharia law

Stop closing your eyes. The reason why there is no outrage is because IS are implementing what a lot of Muslims want.

 

Sharia law implementation has many variations.

Imams who are in favor of Sharia law have spoken out against ISIS. Because you don't see the difference doesn't mean other followers don't see the difference.

 

I do see far more outrage against IS than I did against the cartoons and the like. Muslims are risking and sacrificing their lives fighting in actual military battles against ISIS. That's far more than was done of the toons.

 

The Pew polls list three concrete examples:

- death penalty for theft and similar crimes
- death by stoning for adulterers
- death penalty for leaving Islam

A majority of Muslims in many countries in the Middle East, including Iraq, is in favor of this precise implementation, which is exactly what IS is implementing.

What "many variations" are you referring to? Do you consider the above one which includes the three concrete examples acceptable?

I watched the video on that mediamatters.org site. Twice. First, it's good that they do it. Second, again, they are denouncing the methods of IS. One of them is saying the conditions for the caliphate are not met (yet). None of them, however, is denouncing the implementation of Sharia law IS is pursuing, as you correctly point out.

Now you tell me - do you consider Sharia law (including the three concrete examples quoted above from the Pew poll) acceptable and in conformity with human rights? Do you think (as a majority of Muslims) that it should be the supreme law of the land, and should apply to Muslims and non-Muslims alike?

If you answer yes, then good luck to you.

If you answer no, then you must realize that you are on one side of a conflict, or clash of civilizations, or whatever you want to call it. You want to live in a free society with equal rights for women, with no punishment for homosexuality, with free speech, with freedom of religion, including the freedom to leave a religion. This is NOT what ANY "variation" of Sharia law stands for. And the majority of Muslims - certainly in that region, probably in Europe, perhaps not in the USA - wants THAT sharia law.

Do you understand that?

 

You cannot possibly be serious.

The Muslims who are risking and sacrificing their lives in military battles against IS had the battle forced on them, they are from the region. They have no choice. The outrage because of the cartoons was worldwide.

I find your statement highly disingenuous and artificially construed.

 

ISiS are just a mini-Israel terror organization ,where everything is justified for their own believes ...won't be a surprise to see Mossad arming this group, for negative publicity campaign against Muslims