Former Cat Stevens on U.S. Watch List, Plane Diverted

And it doesn't. Which was the point.

Interesting though that you picked the beheadings. I guess that's the nature of the D&D though.

Way to put words in my mouth and go off on a tangent.. all the while condensing the context of the events to completely support yourself.

 

Heck, I pay for HBO, and used to enjoy Dennis Miller. Since he fled to MSNBC to become a conservative gadfly, I feel, well, almost unclean... knowing that I have enjoyed his act as a liberal on the one hand, that he's now posing as a conservative, and that I, in my small way through HBO, had supported this cretin.

Shouldn't Dennis Miller be diverted somewhere??
How about the Maldives. I think they're about 3 feet above sea level, and sinking fast. Hey, he used to poke fun at the Pope, on almost every show. Put him on a list! Diversion! Diversion!

Seriously, as we become a more international society, you know, the World, and as some of us know people in other countries, will this eventually morph into something out of JSC's '30's Germany?


(couple at the airport, wating for a friend)

"Honey, why isn't Jan here? I thought he was going to be on flight 4387?"

"Susan, they've diverted his flight."

"Is he all right?!? What happened? Let's go find out!"

"You don't understand, dear. (stage whisper) They diverted because of him!"

"My god. Whatever for??"

"Let's don't ask. Let's just walk away."

"But why?"

"Because if we ask, they may put us on a list as well."

(fade to black)

 

define crazy first please. Otherwise, you guys are arguing in vein.

 

There's no saving this argument from complete and utter uselessness.

 

So you do not think there is a possiblity, however small, that Yusuf could of knowningly finacially supported organizations with ties to terrorist groups?

 

The two instances (beheadings and diverting a plane) must be taken in their respective contexts.

Is it crazy to assume that Islamic insurgents would behead an American? Sadly, the answer to that is "no." It's obviously immensely tragic, but these people are known to do this and do it regularly. They pervert a beautiful faith and hang a bad cloud over the heads of more than a billion peace-loving, good people.

Is it crazy to divert a plane containing a noted peace activist just because the activist is a Muslim. To me, that is crazy. For those of you old enough to remember, Cat Stevens was the voice of peace for more than a decade. To me, diverting a plane for this man is crazy.

 

just because the government didn't give us (the public) any proof doesn't mean they don't have any...i'm sure they talked privately to Islam about why he isn't allowed in the country for now...the "proof" isn't really any of our business imo...

 

I think Batman was talking in an abstract sense. Like if Mother Teresa was found working at Heartbreakers. To me, unfortunately, that is crazier than militant Muslims beheading someone.

 

That's a dangerous train of thought.

 

On the flip side, why should we have to let everyone into the country?

Is Cat Stevens a citizen? If not, he does not have a right to enter.

Maybe the USA is making a point that those who support the charities that are fronts for Terrorist organizations will not get access to the USA.

I guess we have to know all the facts first....

DD

 

He is not Cat Stevens. He supported the death sentence of Salmon Rushdie, and called Saddam his brother (that could of been in a peaceful sense but I don't know). And if he has ties to organizations that fund terrorist groups, maybe there should be some concern. I don't know the facts or the man personally, but I can see how others might be alarmed.

 

i don't know if cat/yusef is a US citizen or not, but under the new law of the land even if he is......he would not be entitled to any legal recourse anyways.....he is simply labelled an enemy combatant and powerless against the US govt irregardless of whether they want to submit "proof" or not....so IMO, insane man makes a good point...i mean the poster "insane man"

 

I disagree. I think this is a valid topic, if people will think about it. Now, I'm a huge fan of Arnold, Governor of California, and he's a Republican. Arnold is from Austria, and may have, in the past, given donations to politicians of a very, shall we say, unsavory connection in the far past to National Socialist Germany. Arnold may not have realized the connection at all, or thought it was so far in the past as to have no bearing on today. The man I'm thinking of was President of Austria. I'm pretty sure he's dead now. To sum up, should we hold it against Arnold that he may have given money to a former Nazi? I don't think we should.

My point? Cat Stevens, aka... whatever, is a celebrity. They get asked for money from groups all the time. He has also, for the last many years, been a Muslim. So he's been asked for money from Muslim charities. Isn't the likelihood that he knew nothing about any alleged connections to... whatever, far more likely than the reverse? Isn't knee-jerk reactions like this the very thing that we shouldn't want our government to do? By doing this, they have slandered Cat Stevens. (he'll always be Cat Stevens to me) Unless they can show incontrovertible truth that he knowingly gave money to organizations knowing they were something other than what they presented themselves to be, then this should never have happened. This is straight out of the Joe McCarthy era.

 

Just because they are known to do this does not make it less crazy. It makes it less surprising when it happens, but not less crazy.

This kind of thinking is exactly the numbness to these kind of acts that needs to be prevented.

 

I was refering to the argument over how "crazy" this is to Batman Jones.

Not the actual validity of Steven's treatment, which is very much important and valid.

 

T_J is right, though, if he indeed funds organizations which have links to terrorists, there might be an actual reason to refuse entry to the guy (but not to divert the plane, I'd have to say). Without knowing all the facts, it is hard to form a definite opinion on this.

 

I love this new style of argument.


"My mom died, this is devestating."

"Even more devestating than 9/11???"

"Well, I mean, err..."

"You make me sick."

 

You know, I have a problem with his statements about Rushdie, which he recanted, I believe, but we tend to give our singers, actors, playwrights and so on, more credit for political intelligence than some of them deserve, just because they are famous. Many creative people have said or done things in their youth, that they later regreted. Again, just look at the McCarthy era, when every creative person in Hollywood had their past gone over with a finetooth comb. Some of those past associations were used against them, even though they were of no significance. Careers were destroyed. Today, that era is looked at as terrible, and those who helped break the back of blacklisting as heros, in the industry. Someday, some of this will be looked back on the same way.

 

John Lennon would never be allowed in the country!

 

He might be alive today if he hadn't.