For those who want to trade Francis

Ha, ha! meh got you there farhan 007.

 

I think it will depend on how he perform for the rest of the season. It is more about the way he plays, rather than about how far we go in playoff.

Right now, I am praying that SF doesn't go back to his subpar perfromances after a great game, as he did several times this year.

 

Subtract Mobley and Francis and add Lue and T-Mac and this is a top 4 seed in the west no doubt.

 

Looks like majority dont want to give Steve a 2nd chance.

 

but, comon!! Thorpe for Drexeler. A labove average player for a legend?? Obviously i would trade francis for garnet if the offer was availible. All im saying is that if the rockets win the championship, CD shouldnt look for trading the core, unless some ridiculous offer comes to the table.

 

thats a good point BUT you might want to check otis thorpe's ring finger

 

Even before the game I wanted to start a vote: keep or trade Steve. I wanted to see how many of you really want to get rid of him. To me, I would keep Steve no matter what, even if we could not make the play-off. I like it " Steve is only 6'3, but he plays with the heart" He is passionate, he is a monster sometimes, he has more desire than any body in the league. I agree Yao is going to lead the team. that is not saying we need to get rid of Steve. I like last night's game. Yao started it, Steve finished it. They are brothers. or at least they are going to be. Tell me who you are get for return for Steve. I do not like Kidd, Allen, guys are too soft for this team. Remember Yao is never going to be Shaq. We need someone tough and passionate. I do not like Iverson, dude shoot poorer than Steve. I do not like Tmac, I never think he is a big time player, I do not know how he is doing if he attempt less times, and in the wild west conference. Tmac has never showed his desire, at least not that kind of desire as Steve's. Ok, if you can bring in TD, KG, J O'neal, or KB, let's trade Steve. If you can not, let's keep him. If you are talking about just star player, not all-star player, let's trade MoT or Kato with others for them, why should we lose Steve, then?
I did not vote, because I want to keep Steve no matter what.

 

ok farhan.. explain this one then. how about when the rockets traded Horry, Cassell, Mark Bryant, and Chucky Brown for Barkley? Was that not breaking up a championship team? Don't get me wrong, I was just as excited as they next guy when acquiring Barkley, but we lost so many excellent plays.. (horry was and still is one of my favorite players). Steve should STAY! He is the heart of the team.

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ill say it again. If there is an offer for someone who is way better than francis and the deal is offererd on the table, take it. But dont trade steve away if he leads this team as far as the finals for someone like hinrich, or allen

 

i say we keep steve, he is to valuable to this team. mobley is expandable, because steve and yao, and jj can share his portion of shots, and the offense would flow more smoothly. t-mac does not play defense jacks 30 shots a game, ai jacks 30 shots a game, and ray allen is a better version of cuttino, getting those players is not fixing the problem. keep steve, get rid of mobley.

 

Rockets lose badly in the 1st round = Look to trade him

Rockets lose in the 1st round, but Francis plays well = Consider trading if a team offers a good deal

Get to the second round or further = keep him

 

Nope, like when we traded Sam Cassell and Robert Horry for Charles Barkley. It made the franchise better in the short-term, maybe, but in the long term it's been a long time rebuilding.

 

Miggidy Markell:

Spare me. Every team needs good roleplayers. But don't make the mistake of overhyping them. You can replace players like JJ fairly easily. You might have to look hard, but you can. Are you really trying to argue that there has been not determinative improvement from Yao from last season?

If you're not willing to say that, then you have no point.

Then why is Steve's performance not outcome determinative?

He plays well... and the team does win more games. But when Yao plays well, the statistics are remarkable.

You keep claiming there's this 1-2 punch. For that to be true, both players have to be utterly crucial to creating wins. From what we've seen, Yao's play is far more crucial to creating wins (or having losses).

Why are you so damned stubborn? There's nothing wrong with admitting: "holy crap! Looking at the statistics, when Yao plays well and is the focal point of the offense, we almost always win! When Steve plays well, there's not as much of a difference! I guess that Yao Mign guy really is more important."

 

I wouldn't tie the Francis' future to the Rockets' playoff performance. Instead, determine the future composition of the Rockets' by how they play together here on out (no particular playoff result determinative).

The past is the past, and in this case, it's certainly not indicative of future performance. Consider this.

Francis has been trying to lead this team to the playoffs each of the past two seasons (heck, everybody's been expecting him to do this). All the while, he's been asked to give the ball to Yao who has only recently begun to emerge as a viable go-to guy, and I don't think giving him the ball earlier in his career would have accelerated his development a whole lot since a lot of it is related to his physical development, instead, it'd have just led to more losses and frustration.

Now that they're both ready, or close to ready, let's open up a new page, start with a clean slate, and see how they play together.

Go Rockets.

 

You probably forgot about the situation at that time. Otis Thorpe was our second best player, Mr. Consistency. I remember our announcers talk about how he can be penciled in for 15-10 every night. The guy was the perfect complement to Hakeem. Clyde was near the end of his career(he only played 3 seasons after coming to the Rockets). He was a shooting guard, a position already held by Mad Max. He's nowhere NEAR the worth of a KG. A more likely comp would be a Gary Payton.

At that time, I remember the media being very critical about the trade. Saying, among other things, how you don't break up a championship team, you don't trade big for small, etc. Without 20/20 hindsight, the deal was anything BUT a no-brainer.

In case you haven't noticed, NO ONE here is trying to trade Stevie for an old player. All the possible players I've seen discussed, Hinrich, Allen, Chandler, Brand, etc. are all young players.

As with everything else in life, trade outcomes are never certain. We hit the jackpot with the Drexler trade. We lost on the Barkley trade. You can't win them all.

 

Unless Steve in the next 3 months is able to magically become a good pg or develop a go to move that makes him unguardable in the clutch, then ship him out if a reasonable trade for better suited players around ming is offered.

Making it further into the playoffs can only increase his trade value.

 

how is steve not significant to the team?? Hes the damn pg!!! Also a pg who demands the ball alot!!! So he has the ball for most of the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its not all about stats!!! If steve is being dumb, the team is going to suffer, if steve plays smart and effective, the team greatly benifits, becasue he sets others up!!! He is the floor genreal!!! Bad or good, he still is. Plus we can draw many examples when steve goes to the bench and the team drops down a cliff. same goes for yao.

 

Dude, when Yao puts up #'s, the team almost always wins. It matters far less when Steve puts up significant #'s.

You can't explain that away by saying "oh, the PG is more important" (look at the Rockets championship teams, or the Lakers, etc, etc). You can't explain it by saying that "steve was huge in X game."

It doesn't matter as much if he does well. Sorry. The record exposes you. Why can't you just admit Yao is more important when the #'s are so overwhelmingly against you?