DK - You have asked a rational queston and I'll give what I consider to be a rational answer. In addition to the good points already mentioned by leebigez, there is something that I noticed about Steve near the beginning of the 2002-03 season. He can't look beyond the player defending him and into the defense. In order to be an effectve P1S2 PG, he has to be able to do this. IOW, Steve's entire natural mental focus is that which is immediately in front of him and he is unable get beyond that without difficulty. I know this sounds a little hokey, but hear me out. Have you ever played a pickup game and been the post player for your team? How did you know where the basket was when you couldn't see it? How did you know where the weakside teammates and defenders were? Or, if you were not a post player, have you ever made a blind pass to a teammate? These are the type of mental abilities that traditional PG's have and the great PG's have an abundance of. This abilty to "see" a basketball court in your minds' eye is a quality SF3 does not have. Is he athletic? Does he play with heart? Can he cross-over the defender immediately in front of him? Yes on all three. But for all of these qualities, he does not "see" the court in the same way a Stockton or Mark Jackson or a TJ Ford or even a Carlos Arroyo does. IMVHO, this inability to mentally extrapolate distance, direction and velocity of your 4 teammates and their defenders is an Achilles' Heel that can only be overcome within an offensive structure which allows SF3 a free reign to create his own shot off of the dribble. And this style negates the pluses of having a 7'6" teammate who shoots 52% and is a mismatch against 90% of the leagues' defenders. As offensive as this sounds, it my heartfelt opinion that.... for the vast majority of the current season, the Rockets have won in spite of Steve rather than because of him. And I just don't see this changing in the playoffs. I just can't imagine that SF3 will be in the Rockets training camp for the 2004-05 season.
I think that only people who haven't been true NBA fans for a long time would want to get rid of Steve. I would never even entertain the thought. Steve is not a problem. He is a great basketball player to have on your team. Bottom line. I feel lucky to have him. This BBS needs an enema.
GATER, You wanna hear something ironic? You know those few games where we were down by 10 and came back....then later won by 2 or 3 points? Sit SF for the whole game and we never would have been down in order to "win it." It's the difference between controling most of the game VS losing it, getting it back, then losing it and then getting it back... This wouldn't be the case 4 years ago in the SF/Cat(Rudy) days, when SF/Cat were exclusively our only offense. But since JVG, JJ, MJax and Yao. Things have changed. Analogy: Like a pyro that gets credit for putting out the fires. Little do people know, he's the one starting them in the first place.
Actually your dream lineup came true once this season. SF was suspended after SB party and sat the whole Suns game. JJ, MJAX and Yao played heavy minutes in the game. Whew, it must be a breeze win for Rockets. The reality check, Rockets got blown away by the Amare-less Suns by 20 points. Yeah, we would not be doing losing it, getting it back, then losing it and then getting it back... (BTW, that is how most NBA games look like), instead we got blown away 20 points by the worst starting lineup in NBA history (J Johnson, Brabosa, Casey Jacobsen, Marion and Voskuhl).
I don't know why it is so hard for many to accept that maybe Steve Francis and the Rockets BOTH would be better with a split. To me if you clear prioty is SF as an individual player and as a superstar you want him to go to a team where he is the unquestioned 1st option, a situation where he WILL BE THE MAN. That just won't be the case here, Yao is much younger and just has too many advantages to not to have him as the centerpiece. Now if you clear priority is the Rockets you want to explore trading Steve Francis for players of comparable talent or potential who would better fit with the strengths of Yao and JVG. Thus to me the persons finding it so distastefull to even considering trading Francis are the ones where their fondness for the Rockets and Francis are so closely linked they can't be separated. I remember this with the trade of the late model Hakeem threads (Freak, a few others), but that was for a guy who gave the city its 1st two rings and been a cog for like 15+ years spanning college and pro. I have a hard time following this sentiment for Francis unless maybe you just tuned into the Rockets about the same time Francis arrived.
No rockets fan would be upset if SF is traded as long as we get the equal value back. Some of us just do not agree to blame every thing on Steve. This is a basketball discussion.
There are some major holes in the logic. First, the NBA is about being prepared mentally. To have a key starter missing a plane trip and getting suspended severly detracts from the teams' mental prep. Secondly, the Suns beat the Rockets in the very next game when Francis and Amare where both playing. Do I conclude from this that Amare is better than Francis? Is this why Francis threw a forearm at Stoudemire? Lastly, when Francis is traded there will be incoming players which totally makes the one isolated PHX game irrelevant. I started watching the NBA probably before you were born. For an inside-out team, Steve is the problem. He is an extremely inefficient player. Since you recommened a medical solution, allow me to suggest one...video tape and replacing the SF-colored glasses with a newer prescription.
Everyone, I just wanted to say I won't say another thing about Steve for the rest of the season or postseason. Its obvious everyone knows how I feel about him, I'll just let it be.
If you can do it...I can, too... No more Steve comments until after the playoffs...now if we could only get Juugie and Yetti into the Steve-moratorium....
I'm with you guys. I've already said I'm not going to be negative about any Rocket player until after the playoffs. I agree with you guys and frankly, the discussion has gotten way too caustic. Rockets fans shouldn't be at each other's throats like this. We shouldn't let our allegiance or dislike of any player cause us to overlook that we are Rockets fans - we all have that in common.
I am a die hard Rockets fan, I just want to see them win and basing my opinion on having seen every second of every game, I would have to say that with out Steve Francis this team would not have won 30 games. I just want to see every player on the team give 100% effort on the court everytime he steps out there and the only two that have shown that all year long are Steve Francis and Jimmy Jackson. As far as being a Yao hater, I don't consider myself that, I just point out the flaws that Yao has to the fans who seem to be blind when they are watching Yao. Yao is a frustrating Dude casue on a few nights he has looked dominating and unstoppable but most night he has looked like a flop and gets pushed around and gets abused by scrups. He looks slow and tired most of the time on the court and he can't seem top hold on to a rebound. But just as without steve this team wouldn't have won as many games without Yao.All i want is for the die hard fans in this board like you, "Severe Rockets Fan" to be fair on all players and not just hate on steve and also realize that Yao also mistakes in the games.
I am a SF fan I am a KT fan I am a OHarring ton fan KT and O left. . . I'm still fans of theres If steve Leaves .. I will still be a fan of his but 1st and formost I am a ROCKETS fan I support the players and am optimistic until they actually leave I NEVER wish someone off our team [hell I think we should have kept Collier!!!] [i never saw much in Langhi though] That being said. 1. Steve had a hard time adjusting to the rules last year 2. I think the adjustment and problems this year with steve is JVG - I HONESTLY don't think JVG wants a Star PG at all .. I think J Kidd, Bibby, etc would struggle because JVG does not want a PG that scores much at all . . . JVG has a system. .. we wants to build a team to the system instead of building a system to the team . . . .you want to see the result .. . Look at the GREAT RILEY in miami and NY . . . . good teams .. no rings I see the same UNLESS JVG adapts 3. I think SF is adapting to the JVG system . . i think he needs another year. . . . UNTIL YAO can log 40 mins a game JVG system needs another person with some PUNCH [JVG expects yao to log 40 a nite] I said going into this year . . if the Rockets did not win over 50 then I could not see a real justification for replacing RUdy I still beleive that As Stated before. . . JVG has taught SF alot . . I would hate to see it applied somewhere else . . .with much better results SF will be a better player next year. . . I GUARANTEE THAT [barring injury] Tell you what SF for JWILL, BATTIER and POSEY or BONZI I bet you memphis would bit and I bet you dollars to donuts SF would be a LEGIT All Star [even in you haters eyes] its called coaching Rocket RIver
"Dream lineup?" Heh.... I wasn't suggesting that Mjax and Wilks replace Francis on a long term basis. I was saying that when they do run the show, they bring a stability and efficiency to our team. They're not sloppy. As far as match-ups during the season...well, we haven't played enough games w/out SF for you to see the difference I'm talking about. I can always point to the Seattle win if you want an example. Also, I can point to tons of games where SF was on the bench (resting) and the game just seem to flow better with MJax on the court (low TO and more team play). Long term, MJax brings his own problems: age. So, this is not a permanent solution, nor did I mean to suggest that. As far as win total....well, there's also the issue about "talent." That's something that will be addressed if Francis was traded. He's not going to be waived. It's called a TRADE (for another star). After he's traded, then we can talk about "dream lineup." Wow! Worst ever? Is your name Bill Walton? Heh...Way to blow things out of proportion. Could it be that the Suns played well as a team that day and we just got beat? As opposed to suggesting that if SF could play, he was going to come in and save the day? Get real. I don't even have to go into the *mental preparation* reasons GATER brought up. He covered them thoroughly.
If I may jump in here... SRF has posed a perfectly legitimate question for discussion. SF has become a polarizing force amongst the fandom. He's both hated and loved in almost equal measure. Now that he's FINALLY in the playoffs, I feel that it was perfectly OK for SRF to inqure of those who are anti-SF (and their numbers are legion) if his playoff performance would be enough to change their opinion of him. This is not bashing per se but a reasonable question to ask. This team is at a crossroads. They are being passed by the teams formerly behind them and they have yet to show real progress they have sort of been marching in place. Once their playoff run is done, this entire organization faces critical decisions on its players not the least of which is: Does SF fit into what we are trying to do? How SF plays in the playoffs will go a long way toward determining his future with this team. We now return you to SRF's discussion already in progress...
Hillboy read this thread again and realize you have got it all mixed up. Sorry but Severe Rockets fan is the biggest Steve hater on this board.
Agreed. I'm pretty excited about the playoffs. Hopefully we'll see the Rox play at the highest level they possibly can...if they can do that, I think we'll at least put on a great show and a be extremely competitive. Go Rockets!!!
McGrady article Now that it looks as though the Magic are seriously considering trading Tmac, no, there isn't anything Francis can do to make me want to keep him. I don't know if we have enough to land him, but I would give up everything, short of Yao, to acquire Tmac. If you could surround him and Yao with smart, decent shooting role players, we'd be among the elite teams no question
