DonKnutts, What Clutch was referring to was what I like to call "fools gold." Which is immediate success, but is followed by the inevitable failure in the future. It's a perverbial "carrot" that may fool some (fans, and GMs alike) into thinking that we are "ok." But it's only temporary success; one step forward, three steps back...etc, etc... It just delays the day we end up trading him anyways. This wouldn't be such a big deal if Francis was just a "role" player. He's not. A lot of our offense still goes through him. Because of his inability to run the team with any sense of efficiency...it make the job of winning consistently that much harder. I mean, our team seems to just struggle with every possession. Enter "slow-man" MJax and the court starts to open up! Even Wilks is able to bring this to our team. I'm not suggesting that those two are meant to be replacements for Francis. But it just goes to show how much we are missing from the PG position when the guy running that position is so incompetent. If Francis was a 2nd round pick (a steal) and we paid him peanuts, I'd say sure. Keep him. He'd be our "Bowen." Our "x-factor." The "spark plug." Whatever you want to call it... But he's not qualified to run the team as our "leader." It's too much responsibility for a player lacking in so many simple fundamentals; the basics of the PG role. By the way, I really dislike it when someone refers to Francis as a "combo guard." Combo means that he's good at two main skills; scoring and passing...as in, they are neither PG or SG, but BOTH. Right? Well, I don't see it. To me, a combo guard was Payton, Kevin Johnson or Isiah. They could score a lot AND had high assist (low TO too). The best of both worlds. A combo guard. A combination of the PG and SG positions. But they did both very well! Today, the term "combo guard" seems to be apologetic, rather than realistic; i.e. they can't score very well or pass very well, thus call them a "combo guard." Or worse...a "tweener = too short to be a SG, but too incompetent to be a PG."
Your numbers for spg and TO/g are wrong. Cmon man, 3.5 Steals per game for a month in a half? I can't believe you didn't catch that.
I am not a Steve hater. I have flipped flopped on him for so many times I stopped counting. I am sure many of us here feel the same way. There are times when you thought he'd "got it." Then the next week he would revert back to his habitual problems. It is not just one slumping season. It's several years. I think he really wants to win. I don't think he is selfish in the sense that he put himself over the team. But he is immature. After so many disappointments, I now tend to give up hope that he will ever grow up. Maybe when he is thirty-something. But that's not soon enough for us fans hunger for a title contender. There was a time earlier this season when I was on the "he doesn't fit JVG's system" bandwagon. He was trying hard to change his game to fit. Now, I am resigned to believe that it is not the question of fitting. Rather, he simply doesn't have the abilities or skills to be a great player we all want him to be. He is a very good player. But now I don't think he is superstar material. That, to me is a very sad realization. You see. If Steve were a role player, we would have loved him to death. He is athletic. He can hit from outside when he's hot. He hustle after loose ball. He has energy. All these are what everyone look for in a role player. But he's not. He is supposed to be a Franchise player. He is making the max money. That's why so many of us final decided that he should go. We loved Moochie, before he got that ridiculous contract. If Moochie were making the minimum, being our third string PG, sitting at the end of the bench cheering for the guys, we'd love him to death. But he's not. He made money a good role player makes. And he is not a good role player material. Same way with Francis. It's not whether he fits the system. It's whether his skills fits his supposed role as the superstar player making the max. What will he have to do to change my mind? Damn, I don't know. If he has a great playoff series, leading us upsetting whoever we play, then maybe I'll flip back to my "he's finally got it" mode. But many of us are haunted by the scary thought: "What if he reverts back to his old problems again next season?"
you forgot the 4th kind.. the ones that support everyone on the team until the day they leave to put on a different uniform. call em Pollyannas...call em homers...call em what you will... but believe it or not, it is acceptable to support every player on the team irregardless of their flaws as long as they play for your team. that is me in a nutshell. and to answer your earlier question.....I say good things about all the players all the time...so dont even try pigeonholing me into some arbitrary designation for ridicule. the only "-only" designation I admit to is Rockets-only fan...some of you forget that in your rush to pigeonhole posters..just because someone defends Francis does not automatically make them a Francis only fan or some SF jock rider....that is the most pathetic form of denigration that has become rampant on this board lately...... damn...this place makes my head hurt worse than watching SF dribble the ball off his foot repeatedly.
You know what, you guys could definitely be right. It's certainly a clinical, cold way to assess your favorite team and I (without sarcasm) applaud your ability to look at the long-term scope of things. Where I'm an optimist, perhaps you guys are realists. Or maybe fatalists. The ultimate goal is a championship, sure. But answer me this, is it fun for you to root for the Rockets? To hope and dream that the team as it is currently assembled advances as far as it can go in this year's playoffs? Do you derive any joy from watching the current squad play? Or is it mere scrapbook fodder for the inevitable conclusion of Steve's career in Houston.... I don't know. It reminds me of this quote from the book "The Alchemist"— "I don't live in either my past or my future. I'm interested only in the present. If you can concentrate always on the present, you'll be a happy man ... Life will be a party for you, a grand festival, because life is the moment we're living right now." As a Rockets fan sniffing the postseason for the first time in a while, life is a party right now. I want to soak it in a little.
It's like this... Once the game starts, I'm a fan. Which means, "Yelling at the TV, rooting for the team, and screaming at the opposition." All that good stuff. But half the time, I've found myself, slapping my forehead ( ) saying outloud... "What the heck?" "What kind of pass was that?" "You got to be kidding me!" "Opposition scores in 5 seconds, and we wait until the 23 second mark to shoot?" "Three turnovers in a row!?" "When was the last time we scored?" "Great! A perfect pass to the guy in the 2nd row." "A turnover, a foul, and a technical in 5 seconds? That's gotta be a record!" It's "love hate" right now, because of a major weakness in our team: our PG.
I don't remember you standing up to all the posters that didn't want moochie on the team. Did you think he was the unconditional answer to our backup PG position? Seriously. I wouldn't try to pigeonhole you, in fact I didn't ask you one question, but you sure seem to want to talk to me for some odd reason. I guess your unconditional emotions for Francis have got the better of you. Thats the path you want to take regarding him as a player, not me. Just because I'm a fan doesn't mean I can't wish some guy was off the team. I honestly feel he's taking away our chances to win more games...we can't all be like you R2K. Some actually think change would be good. And I'll argue my case until one of you prove to me why its a good idea to keep him, other than, "oh, I root for everyone on our team." Yeah, thats good logic... If it hurts to read these boards then why do you even come? Its funny that you say "this place makes my head hurt worse than watching SF dribble the ball off his foot repeatedly. " cause I feel the exact same way...but I don't keep supporting the guy that won't fix this moronic error...and thats what pisses me off, Steve's lack of improvement. But I guess you don't care about all that since your a "rocket-only-fan".
His will to win was proven in the game in which he won for the Rockets that clinched the playoff spot. With injuries and all he still played D and scored 33pts, while your boy Yao got lit up by cotton camby.
Don't mind amed, hes just as bad as YOF's if not worse. Can't even defend steve without bashing another player, I mean i dont think hes even responded to the ORIGINAL subject at hand hes done nothing but attack yao in this thread i mean stick to the topic my god... Anyway if steve showed me in the playoffs that he can play more controlled I would consider it. If he showed me that he has the determination to drastically improve his fundamentals then I would like to see him stay.
your logic is flawed. Yao has carried us through many games this season; meaning if he didnt step it up in those games we would of lost. So basically if yao didnt step it up earlier we wouldnt even be in playoff contention. It just so happened taht steve finally steped it up. So basically if yao didnt carry us earlier, steves 33 pts would mean nothing. So shutup and think.
I'm not trying to take the route of amed here, but if you want to trade Steve, then you must think that Yao can carry the team or at least significantly improve his numbers without him (I think that is what amed is trying to get at). My question is, what makes you think this? I think Yao is a very good player, don't get me wrong, but outside of his FG% and FT%, what does he do extraordinarily well? Do you think Yao will ever be capable of playing more than 35 mpg?
Yes and no. Yes, we do think that Yao is the one we should bank on carrying the team in the future. If Yao can't, we're in trouble, because neither can Steve. No, we don't expect Yao to do it all by himself. You guys sound like we want to just give Steve away. No. Read Clutch's post. We want to exchange Francis for some very good quality players. We want to get a star in return. We want to pull off some great trade (on some unsuspecting GM ) that will land us a true star to play alongside Yao.
I rarely stand up and shout a position period. Did I like Moochie as a player...no, not really...but I didnt post one post after another to slam his shortcomings. Im not that way.. You made a listing of the three types of fans you see in your world...I mearly pointed out there was a catagory you missed. Nothin more, nothing less...you read a argument with you that isnt there...Im not stupid enough to waste my time tryin to change your mind or get you to stop repeatdly saying the same thing over and over...thats your decision to make...or not. unconditional emotions.... whatever...you cant seem to make a post without being insulting can you? And for the record....that post may have mentioned SF by name(but in no way was intended to be a rant for or against Francis)...the main thrust of the post was concerning how some of you address your fellow fans/posters....since you are one of the most prolific in your insults....it was directed in that regard to you but was intended to refer to a larger segment of the bbs population. as for the rest of your post....once agin, you have feelings attributed to me that I have never expressly said, you assume you know my position by what little I have said about the subject. I will say this...I am not convinced that he is worth keeping longterm...but I arent as quick or as vocal to demand trade based on my own perceptions.... why come here? This used to be the palce to hear good discussions about my favorite team in any sport.....maybe I keep hoping against hope that it will one day get back to that...until then...I keep reading and biting my tongue. I guess brevity would have been better...its a shame I take 4 paragraphs to get a point across. My point.....dont assume that your knowledge/opinion of players and posters is the only right one.
You know what's frustrating? Anyone who's watched Francis from the beginning knows Francis can do all those things. He's done it in previous seasons consistently. It's part of what made him so great. This season?... He just... hasn't this year for god knows what reason. Confidence is shot? Just a long off-period? Frustration with something?
Go out and buy your freaking playoff tickets.....its sad that the games are not sold-out yet!!!! C'mon Rocket fan!!!
Amen to that!!! I bought my tix 3 weeks ago. Severe Rockets Fan, I applaud your passion but you seem more like a Steve hater that a Rockets fan. I am a big Steve fan but I also love the Rockets. I posted that I wish what's best for the team even if that means getting rid of steve b/c I can always follow steve's career elsewhere. It's gotten to the point where it is pointless to discuss Steve with most fans b/c they HATE him regardless of what he does. I hope he gets traded and thrives elsewhere b/c I am sick of reading and listening to idiotic fans as yourself. You claim to be a Rox fan but all you do is hate on steve, not one comment on the Rockets withought mention of hating steve. What is it? Did Francis not give you an autograph or shake your hand one day? Did he snub you? You should change your name to STAN, cause you're addicted to hating on a guy that has been tremendous on and off the court the past 4.5 years. Let it go man, just let it go, you'll feel much better. Peace.
