First off..nice points Cat, RocksMil, & Hydra. Thanks. So Hydra, I don't know exactly who the FA's are.....but the Spurs will at least be in a position $cap-wise$ to reload around Tim either thru trade or free agent signings. This is exactly my point. It doesn't matter how much cap room you have if there are no free agents to sign. As for trades, who do the Spurs have that anyone else wants besides Tim? I am not disputing the Spurs cap situation, only that it could not have happened at a worse time. Mayhap the best they can hope for is to pick up some Clippers as their contracts expire.
As a Spurs AND a Rocket fan, it's nice to see people stick up for the Spurs...but I don't see how anyone can realistically get excited about the Spurs squad this year. Let's not mistake cheerleading for discernment and insight, OK? This has gotta be one of the worst off-seasons in Spurs History. We're supposed to be relieved that D-Rob is returning? He's going to be better this year, right? Bruce Bowen, Cherokee Parks, Steve Smith...can someone tell me where the points are gonna come from? Oh yeah, we still have our geezer squad of 3 point specialists, but we saw how effective that was in the playoffs. Danny Ferry? Rick Fox shut him down without breaking a sweat. Terry Porter? Won't he be 39 come playoff time? Steve Smith? Phil Jackson's terrified, I'm sure. I think the only way to beat the Lakers (if thats even possible), is to make THEM play defense. Bringing in a defensive specialist like Bowen is not going to help us. Come playoffs, all one needs to do is to limit Duncan, and the Spurs offense falls utterly to pieces. Our gang of stiffs might get hot now and then, but they absolutely cannot be counted on...didnt Pop learn anything? Bottom line, we needed to get more offensive athleticism to even remain competitive this year. Sadly, I think the comparison to the Utah Jazz is fair... Look for a decent regular season and an early disgraceful exit in the playoffs. Buckle up Spurs fans, it's gonna get a little rugged this year.
um, if bruce bwen is their BEST perimeter defender, then he would have been on kobe...the laker's BEST perimeter scorer. no coach in his right mind would stick HIS best perimeter scorer on the other team's best perimter scorer when he could waste a "defensive juggernaut"/SCRUB like bruce bwen against him.
My point exactly! What happen to the Spurs, they were disposed of by the Lakers with ease. The Spurs hope was DA would get beat by Kobe--but nonetheless at least limit the damage by playing good defense and scoring a little to make him provide some effort on the defensive side in the playoffs (and have DA put some 16-22 PPG in the boxscores). Based on the a lot of the regular season it looked like DA might be that missing piece, at least it looked like the Spurs-Lakers would be quite a showdown. However, I think by the end of the playoffs it was pretty obvious that once the Lakers got healthy and focused a little even had the Spurs had a healthy DA they were not going to handle the Lakers. You can disagree and think with a the healthy DA the Spurs would have hung with the Lakers, but I think this is obvious to most of us this wasn't going to happen. Further, now the Spurs don't have that 3rd multiple threat player, and replaced him with far less dynamic types and aging players. Specialists in staring roles might help you get a good regular season record and help you beat the average and bad teams with consistency, but they don't help you beat the best teams or win championships. Sawadee, nice having you show up. I am not picking on the Spurs, I still think they are the 3rd best team in the West. But when has a team with among the weakest set of 1-2-3s in the whole league made a serious run at the title? (No one has listed teams worse in this department so I assume this contention is unchalleneged??????) You need balance and well rounded role players, the championship teams in recent memory with the least amount of balance were the 94 Rockets and 99 Spurs, but Smith, Maxwell and Horry OR Avery, Mario and Elliott at worst made an average to above average group of guards/SFs and were a couple notches more dynamic than the comparable group of Spurs (Max, Horry, Mario and Elliott could all hurt you in multiple ways offensively AND were excellent defenders). Also, those teams had better frontline dous to boot (D-Rob was younger then while TD was already himself; Hakeem was unbelievable--the best front line player seen period for at least 15 years, while Thorpe was a terrific compliment and probably top 12 PF). Next year the Spurs will be fighting with the Kings (my pick) and maybe Portland (outside chance) for the right to get booted by the Lakers in the WCF.
Posted by Hydra "This is exactly my point. It doesn't matter how much cap room you have if there are no free agents to sign. As for trades, who do the Spurs have that anyone else wants besides Tim? " Ok, I see where you are goin'. As far as who the Spurs with trade value in 2003: Malik Antonio Tony Parker...likely Stephen Jackson...possible Cherokee Not our greatest strength, but some potential gamers in Jackson and Parker by 2003. I think it is WAY too early to know whether it will be a sub-par, average, or great free agent market in 2003. It is hard to tell which of the recent draftees will be standouts at that time, or which players that currently have 2-3 years experience will step their game up. The Spurs don't have to go get a stud like CWebb or Carter. They have one in Tim, they'll just need a quality center, and one or two top players. But there will be free agents out there, and the Spurs will have the cash. Finding the 2003 free agents is difficult, theres not a whole lot of info on the web, or discussion on it. What I did find was something posted by IcemanCometh on a Spurs site: Can't guarantee everything is still accurate since it was first posted. 2003 the goods mcdyess jamison hughes bibby jermaine o'neal olowakandi al harrington dickerson bonzi wells keon clark duncan daniels the olds gary payton karl malone zo pj brown reggie miller googs elden campbell darrell armstrong steve smith clifford robinson sam cassell scottie pippen mitch richmond steve kerr juwan howard the restricteds maggette baron davis steve francis elton brand lamar odom bender andre miller marion richard hamilton wally world jason terry the blahs chauncey billups quincy lewis trajan langdon "tractor" traylor ron artest brad miller jim mcillvane william avery Toss in Tyrone Lue, Lucious Harris, Jumaine Jones. Personnally, I think Olawakandi, Bonzi, and Francis would be good pickups.
I think TheFreak summed it up pretty nicely......... "In that case you could've said the same thing about their last year 1-2-3 starters. That team was good enough to have the best record in the league. The starting combo of Daniels, Smith, and Bowen, is no worse than last year's combo of Porter, AD, and Ferry." Feel free to borrow some of the following for your response; if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, and, and, and, and, and, but, but, but, but.
If you were correct, Duncan would've left last summer. Houston has little chance of landing Duncan. I guess Houston has such a rep at landing "big name" free agents like Mo Taylor, eh? I'm not worried.
DRob Daniels Rose Smith Bowen Parker SJackson DFerry Parks ...as of right now. I love how the Spurs have somehow been prohibited from making moves...did I miss the press release? I must admit...I try to restrain myself when I read some of the takes in this forum...but I must say that some of the criticisms I see levelled at the Spurs are rather weak and sound more like 'wishes' than anything else.
AD Smith Bowen > Porter DA DFerry AD Smith and Bowen is not "among the weakest set of 1-2-3s" in the NBA. Olajuwon carried a average to below average perimeter to the title in '93-'94, I'm surprised you have forgotten.
WTF? Oh no, the Spurs have Antonio Daniels and Steve Smith as their starting backcourt. Only on a Rockets fan site is this among the 'weakest in the league.'
DA struggled in the halfcourt to take his defender off the dribble. A player like Smith is a better fit for the Spurs next season than DA at the 2. The Spurs have more ways to attack than last season's team. And are definitely much more versatile than last year as well.
Is there really so little going on at the Spurs fansites right now? Eeeeeeeghghh! What about the depth/versatility of the 1-2 spots in SA? (I know as a Rockets fan that depth is something we're lacking at the 4-5 spots right now, so maybe I should'nt be talking...) What will you be saying come playoff time should something happen (injuries, old-age, etc.) in the Spurs backcourt?
How is this obvious? The first two games were close games (okay, maybe just the 2nd...still, SA could've had Game 2), and that was without DA. The Spurs basically gave up after that. Why do you think taking away a team's 2nd-leading scorer isn't going to make a difference? Taking away their best perimeter player, by far, makes no difference? Losing DA was roughly equal to the Lakers losing both Fisher and Fox...do you think LA would've beaten the Spurs without those two? I think it's pretty obvious the series would've been up for grabs in that case. You apparently think that LA, without Fisher and Fox, would have obviously beaten the Spurs. Huh? So the Spurs didn't make a serious run at the title last year? And Maxwell, Smith, and Horry, were definitely among the weakest ever, if not the weakest. The '94 Rockets had the weakest supporting cast of any champion in at least the last 20+ years. Anyway, your question is irrelevant. Why don't we look at starting 4-5's instead? The Pistons and Bulls had some terrible (relatively speaking) starting 4/5 combos (Rodman/Longley, Edwards/Laimbeer), and they did just fine. You can't just isolate a few positions on a team as individuals, and say they aren't good enough to win. That's exactly what you're trying to do. The team with clearly the best 4/5 combo in the NBA, which the Spurs are, doesn't need a good 1-2-3 combo to win, just like a team with the best 1-2-3 combo doesn't need a great 4-5 combo to win. So basically your point is that the Spurs are good enough to have the best record in the league, in the toughest conference in the league, but aren't a "serious title contender"?
Robert Horry was above average those years, and well above average in the playoffs. Cassell wasn't too shabby either. Ditto for Maxwell. Kenny Smith definitely had his moments. All except Sammy were in their primes, and none were over 30. I think you are mistaken in assuming those guys were the same caliber as Antonio Daniels, a 32-year-old Steve Smith, and Bruce Bowen.
With the exception of Cassell, those players aren't exactly the cream of the crop without a strong low post game to feed off of.
Bottom line is... when teams double off Ferry, he drills a three. When teams double off Bowen, you're in trouble... Ferry, for his downside-- speed and defense-- knows what to do if the ball is in his hands... smarter player, better passer, better shooting touch... Bowen does not contribute to the offense.
Ferry is still on the team anyway (ESPN has him as re-signed), so if Bowen isn't hitting, they can still put in Ferry to "drill a three".
Maybe my post was too long (probably is again, but there are a lot of points to cover), but Freak and Spur, you obviously didn't read it in full. I'll retieterate, if ya'll don't recognize Smith, Max, Horry with Elie and Sam of the bench as a far superior supporting cast than AD, Smith, Bowen, Ferry and Porter I have a bridge in the Sahara to sell you, sight unseen. Further, the Rockets 94 team had Dream in his peak. As good as Duncan is, there is a world of difference between those players. Freak, you say losing DA in the playoffs was devastating, Spur says his loss is no big deal. Someone needs their story strait. I happen to think losing DA was devastating, Smith at his age and given his knee's condition is a far less versitile and athletic replacement. Further, even with DA the Spurs were going to at best win 2 games against the Lakers because the Lakers defense could cover the Spurs 3 point shooters and pinch here and there on Duncan. Meanwhile, the Spurs had no answers for Shaq or Kobe, plus gave up big threes. I don't any of these things changing, though I agree DA was their best hope to change the sweep outcome because he could try to to do some damage on both sides of the ball. Basically, Bowen is a tremendous offensive liability (this is <i> persuasively </i> argued in another thread, plus I think it is foolish to think he is a Kobe stopper any way) and Ferry is a tremendous defensive liability, you have to pick your poison there. Also, Smith is now a defensive liability (relative to DA) and if AD was all that good or knew how to run the team like a point guard should why was he on the bench the last 2 years with a fading AJ and an ancient Porter? It is interesting that no-one could actually come up with a worse set of 1-2-3s on any team in the league, let alone among potential playoff teams. Ya'll can choose to think this doesn't matter, but ya'll will get your hopes crushed if your sights are on an NBA finals appearance. If ya'll can duplicate last season effort, a loss in the WCF, I would say a lot of the questionmarks for next years teams worked out about as well as expected. Now if Smith is reborn with twentysomething legs and returns to 1994 form, Bowen discovers an offense at 30 or Ferry gains 2 steps on defense, and AD all of a sudden becomes a dominant team-first PG, ya'll might win the title and please, please, remind me of my post today. I'll take my chances that won't happen. Take is from us Rockets fans, you need some balance and a staple of starting role players who don't have any major liabilities. We had among the best frontline's in history but our marginal starters always came back to bite us late in the playoffs. The best teams focus on the weak links, you need all-around role players like Horry, Fox, Max, Elie and Elliott to make big plays for you on BOTH sides of the ball. I don't fault the effort of guys like Ferry, Bowen, AD, Chuck Person, Dale Ellis, and Maloney, but they do get exploited when they have to be mainstays on the court. As with the post-Barkley trade Rocket teams, the weak links also resulted in the Spurs demise last year (but hey, at least the Rockets put up a fight though). It will be the Spurs story next year as well.
